Hunting - yes or no?

[Goodbadugly]

[Chris_]

Been vegetarian for over a year now. At home we eat strictly vegan but occasionally when eating out we will have a little dairy or so on.

 

It’s a little harder travelling with kids.

 

Each to his own.

 

We have a heap of friends that are omnivores and I will happily go out and eat with them. They are respectful of our choice and we are of theirs.

 

Some of them are intrigued by our choices and ask us questions others simply don’t.

 

From a health perspective I feel absolutely great. I am in the best shape of my life and I attribute 75% of that to diet.

 

We have even started growing our own veg (more a project for the kiddies) using a vegepod.

 

I am not a fan of hunting on a personal level. It’s never really been a thing for me. But I also believe in not being a preachy vegan so much so that most of my work colleagues and some friends still don’t even know. Why should I tell them, I don’t give a damn what they eat.

 

I applaud you for being so stoic on your lifestyle choices. Its nice to be able to just make decisions and be happy to live them without having to prove it or make a point to all and sundry.

 

Vegan lifestyles have attracted a lot of attention because it goes against a lot of norms. There are some people/vegans who enjoy the attention because that's the world we're living in right now - crying out for recognition. You'll find attention seekers in any area of society though.

 

The thing I think though is that some people really do mind the broader consequences. (to your sentence I've bolded) What I do affects only me? I don't think so. If you see yourself as being able to contribute to the solution of a larger problem or awareness, then mine and your decision affects all of us. I also go to 'normal' restaurants, braais, whatever with mates and we go about our lives. I'm not there to change anything, however I don't mind pointing out inconsistencies and backing my choices if it comes up.

 

If I could possibly make a tiny difference to anyone's life, whether it be around food, health, lifestyle, anything at all, it would be a great day.

[Patchelicious]

I applaud you for being so stoic on your lifestyle choices. Its nice to be able to just make decisions and be happy to live them without having to prove it or make a point to all and sundry.

 

Vegan lifestyles have attracted a lot of attention because it goes against a lot of norms. There are some people/vegans who enjoy the attention because that's the world we're living in right now - crying out for recognition. You'll find attention seekers in any area of society though.

 

The thing I think though is that some people really do mind the broader consequences. (to your sentence I've bolded) What I do affects only me? I don't think so. If you see yourself as being able to contribute to the solution of a larger problem or awareness, then mine and your decision affects all of us. I also go to 'normal' restaurants, braais, whatever with mates and we go about our lives. I'm not there to change anything, however I don't mind pointing out inconsistencies and backing my choices if it comes up.

 

If I could possibly make a tiny difference to anyone's life, whether it be around food, health, lifestyle, anything at all, it would be a great day.

 

I think that one of the biggest challenges the good argument for the vegan lifestyle faces, are those veganists you refer too.

 

By pissing people off with relentless badgering and attention seeking you actually turn them off the idea. And here is the sad part, that plant based diets as an idea is a good one.

 

So its a good idea that is getting ruined by a few *** people. Kind of the opposite of religion, where good people get ruined by a few *** ideas.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Patchelicious

[Odinson]

I think that one of the biggest challenges the good argument for the vegan lifestyle faces, are those veganists you refer too.

 

By pissing people off with relentless badgering and attention seeking you actually turn them off the idea. And here is the sad part, that plant based diets as an idea is a good one.

 

So its a good idea that is getting ruined by a few *** people. Kind of the opposite of religion, where good people get ruined by a few *** ideas.

 

Patch, in the same way that it is unfair if the broader community judges all cyclists by the actions of the Jozi Hustle riders, so too it is unfair to judge an entire movement of hundreds of thousands/millions of vegans by the actions of some that you find grating. I'm not going to stop riding my bike because some punk thinks it's cool to go rampage through downton Jhb. 

 

The same example of religion can be used. You don't see Catholics abandoning their faith en masse after the string of revelations of child sex abuse in the church. Most people can understand that the actions of some doesn't define their faith and their values. 

 

You simply align your actions with your values and live your life.  

 

There's also so many people who live a vegan lifestyle but don't label themselves as 'vegan'. Take John Joseph as an example. If someone decides to live their life in accordance with the principles of non-violence and not supporting the exploitation of animals, then it doesn't matter whether that person decides to call themselves vegan, plant-based or an Apache attack helicopter. 

 

You don't need to fear a label. You decide how you define yourself. 

[Chris_]

Patch, in the same way that it is unfair if the broader community judges all cyclists by the actions of the Jozi Hustle riders, so too it is unfair to judge an entire movement of hundreds of thousands/millions of vegans by the actions of some that you find grating. I'm not going to stop riding my bike because some punk thinks it's cool to go rampage through downton Jhb. 

 

The same example of religion can be used. You don't see Catholics abandoning their faith en masse after the string of revelations of child sex abuse in the church. Most people can understand that the actions of some doesn't define their faith and their values. 

 

You simply align your actions with your values and live your life.  

 

There's also so many people who live a vegan lifestyle but don't label themselves as 'vegan'. Take John Joseph as an example. If someone decides to live their life in accordance with the principles of non-violence and not supporting the exploitation of animals, then it doesn't matter whether that person decides to call themselves vegan, plant-based or an Apache attack helicopter. 

 

You don't need to fear a label. You decide how you define yourself. 

 

Now there is one very interesting character...

[Goodbadugly]

Patch, in the same way that it is unfair if the broader community judges all cyclists by the actions of the Jozi Hustle riders, so too it is unfair to judge an entire movement of hundreds of thousands/millions of vegans by the actions of some that you find grating. I'm not going to stop riding my bike because some punk thinks it's cool to go rampage through downton Jhb. 

 

The same example of religion can be used. You don't see Catholics abandoning their faith en masse after the string of revelations of child sex abuse in the church. Most people can understand that the actions of some doesn't define their faith and their values. 

 

You simply align your actions with your values and live your life.  

 

There's also so many people who live a vegan lifestyle but don't label themselves as 'vegan'. Take John Joseph as an example. If someone decides to live their life in accordance with the principles of non-violence and not supporting the exploitation of animals, then it doesn't matter whether that person decides to call themselves vegan, plant-based or an Apache attack helicopter. 

 

You don't need to fear a label. You decide how you define yourself. 

The exact reasons you give for why vegans, cyclists and Catholics are not defined by what some drolle in die drinkwater do can be used by the pro-hunters.

Also the exact reason why farmers cannot be classified in the same league when it involves conservation.

Similar to calling all German speaking people Nazi's.

[Odinson]

Now there is one very interesting character...

 

Very. Very entertaining watching/listening to him. 

[Patchelicious]

Patch, in the same way that it is unfair if the broader community judges all cyclists by the actions of the Jozi Hustle riders, so too it is unfair to judge an entire movement of hundreds of thousands/millions of vegans by the actions of some that you find grating. I'm not going to stop riding my bike because some punk thinks it's cool to go rampage through downton Jhb. 

 

The same example of religion can be used. You don't see Catholics abandoning their faith en masse after the string of revelations of child sex abuse in the church. Most people can understand that the actions of some doesn't define their faith and their values. 

 

You simply align your actions with your values and live your life.  

 

There's also so many people who live a vegan lifestyle but don't label themselves as 'vegan'. Take John Joseph as an example. If someone decides to live their life in accordance with the principles of non-violence and not supporting the exploitation of animals, then it doesn't matter whether that person decides to call themselves vegan, plant-based or an Apache attack helicopter. 

 

You don't need to fear a label. You decide how you define yourself. 

 

I am not the one you need to convince. I very much understand that we cannot judge entire communities based on the actions of the few. That pretty much why I used the words "by a few".

 

However, we know that the larger part of society doesn't always see things that way. Going on your example you just need to look at polls and motoring forum to see the perception that motorists have of cyclists. 

 

Again, I do not judge veganism negatively because of a few veganist, I keep saying that I think its a great lifestyle choice. When I give the Savages uphill for riding 3 abreast, I am not having a go at cycling in general, I am chirping them. As with cyclists who piss motorists off, or preachy religious people, or even militant atheists, they can and should be chirped.

[Odinson]

The exact reasons you give for why vegans, cyclists and Catholics are not defined by what some drolle in die drinkwater do can be used by the pro-hunters.

Also the exact reason why farmers cannot be classified in the same league when it involves conservation.

Similar to calling all German speaking people Nazi's.

 

I agree with you. 

 

That's why I've tried to keep my posts on the hunting/farming conservation discussion based on the scientific literature and not try to judge the community based on the actions of a group of bad apples. 

[Chris_]

The exact reasons you give for why vegans, cyclists and Catholics are not defined by what some drolle in die drinkwater do can be used by the pro-hunters.

Also the exact reason why farmers cannot be classified in the same league when it involves conservation.

Similar to calling all German speaking people Nazi's.

 

This is exactly what this thread is about. A big bold claim was presented, and it needed to get thrashed out a bit. Whether it was backed up accordingly is up to us. Lets be honest no one will leave here with different opinions necessarily, but maybe some clarity or knowledge bombs can/have be dropped. 

 

Its definitely beneficial to be able to remove yourself from a generalized bucket. 

[BaGearA]

And people say that millennials are 'oversensitive snowflakes'. Jeesh. 

 

Whether I am involved in farming/conservation or not does not determine whether I can engage in this discussion or not. By that logic, only politicians can discuss politics, only teachers education and so on and so forth. 

Oi !

[Patchelicious]

Oi !

Don’t be so over sensitive ????

[Patchelicious]

https://www.facebook.com/9gag/videos/736165103413430/

[Escapee..]

In ALL of the religion/vegan/opinion threads we see posters going wild, posting scientific studies, posting personal experiences etc etc but not in one have I actually seen anyone change their stance on a subject.

 

The Bikehub, where the points dont matter and where everyone is always right! Well IMHO

 

Something I would like to see on Bikehub is a poll where you can vote or click when you have changed your opinion on something.

[forkie]

In ALL of the religion/vegan/opinion threads we see posters going wild, posting scientific studies, posting personal experiences etc etc but not in one have I actually seen anyone change their stance on a subject.

 

The Bikehub, where the points dont matter and where everyone is always right! Well IMHO

 

Something I would like to see on Bikehub is a poll where you can vote or click when you have changed your opinion on something.

these issues are exremely personal to everyone and come from years of individual experience. i would be very surprised if the a few posts on a bicycle forum would change anybody's minds. i think its just a platform to put your own views into words and so understand your own standpoint better. i certainly dont expect to make hunters or Christians out of anybody here. however i like to read and understand the opposing views better. most of the time this just cements my own personal standpoints.

[Patchelicious]

In ALL of the religion/vegan/opinion threads we see posters going wild, posting scientific studies, posting personal experiences etc etc but not in one have I actually seen anyone change their stance on a subject.

 

The Bikehub, where the points dont matter and where everyone is always right! Well IMHO

 

Something I would like to see on Bikehub is a poll where you can vote or click when you have changed your opinion on something.

 

I have changed my opinion on many things.

 

People who who refuse to change their opinions are usually towards either ends of the spectrums. The real meat and bones (or lentils) of society however reside in the quieter more middle part of the bell curve.

 

The reason why you don't see it though is for a few reasons. 

Firstly, most arguments are people who are too far apart on the spectrum trying to shout the other person down. Eg: A atheist is never going to convince a deeply religious person that god doesn't exits, they are too far apart. A handlebar moustache wearing, black powder musket wielding trophy hunter in most cases, will not be convinced to go vegan. People closer to the centre need to gently nudge those who are not too far from them on the spectrum.

 

Then there is the ego part. People think/believe that changing your opinion when new facts are presented is an admission of being wrong. Little do people know that changing your opinion based on new facts is in fact a good thing.

 

Then there is the time/self realisation thing. If a vegan wants to convert say somebody like me. Present them with data, and then let them realise on their own accord that its a good idea or not. Doing a Powerpoint presentation and then saying "right, you have seen the data, you don't have a strong counter argument, now sign on the dotted line" might work for selling vacuum cleaners, but not life choices.