The Veganism Thread

[Odinson]

Pathetic argument, full of thumb sucked stats and lies. Groping a woman’s t1ts equals eating a burger? WTF? This sense of morality is quite malformed.

 

Try formulating a proper response. 

 

Here's your thumb sucked lies: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987 Straight from Science. 

 

It's clear you didn't understand the argument. It's an illustration of the arbitrary way in which we assign moral value. Woman - has moral value, so groping even though it gives me pleasure is not morally justifiable. Animal - has no moral value, so exploiting for pleasure is morally justified. Both human and non-human animals have basic interests, which places upon us the responsibility to treat them with basic consideration. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Well constructed point.

 

The premise being that animals are the same as humans.

And I get that, I really do. But equating the sexual assault of a fellow human to eating a steak is intellectually dishonest. 

 

Would I eat dog? Well, me personally no. But that's because I wasn't raised in the east, where dog meat is as normal as beef, and there's a specific species of dog that is raised for its meat. 

 

Do I find the conditions that those dogs are raised and bred in to be abhorrent? Of course I do. No animal should have to go through that sort of treatment even if they end up on our table. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Try formulating a proper response. 

 

Here's your thumb sucked lies: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/360/6392/987 Straight from Science. 

 

It's clear you didn't understand the argument. It's an illustration of the arbitrary way in which we assign moral value. Woman - has moral value, so groping even though it gives me pleasure is not morally justifiable. Animal - has no moral value, so exploiting for pleasure is morally justified. Both human and non-human animals have basic interests, which places upon us the responsibility to treat them with basic consideration. 

I think he understands it, he just doesn't accept it. Sexual assault of one of the same species as yourself is not justifiable. Raising an animal not of your species for food, is. But then, you don't agree with that as you attach the same value to an animal not of our specie as that of a fellow human. 

 

In this case, the proper analogy should be a sexual assault across both species. IE goat shagger vs rapist. In that, I agree with you. Alternatively, raising and utilising a group of humans for food stock, vs a cow. One is our species, the other isn't. I'm in favour of non cannibalism. But I know that we are on the top of the food chain (except when it comes to the chance encounter of a hippo / croc / lion / tiger etc) so find no fault with consuming animals that I don't consider as "friends"

[Rocket-Boy]

Pathetic argument, full of thumb sucked stats and lies. Groping a woman’s t1ts equals eating a burger? WTF? This sense of morality is quite malformed.

Odinson means well, but even for a person who is vegetarian its a little hard to swallow most times. 

I have mentioned a few times that its tantamount to bible bashing that drives even Christians mad.

Honestly I dont like to come to this thread anymore because of the over the top statements that are posted in here at times but I popped in to mention something and got sucked in.

 

-----

 

So anyway I had a braai a few days ago and was looking for a vegetarian option for it. I know it wont suit vegans but skewers with red/green/yellow peppers, cherry tomatoes, portabellini mushrooms and halumi were pretty damn amazing. 

Definitely going to be doing those again.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Odinson means well, but even for a person who is vegetarian its a little hard to swallow most times. 

I have mentioned a few times that its tantamount to bible bashing that drives even Christians mad.

Honestly I dont like to come to this thread anymore because of the over the top statements that are posted in here at times but I popped in to mention something and got sucked in.

 

-----

 

So anyway I had a braai a few days ago and was looking for a vegetarian option for it. I know it wont suit vegans but skewers with red/green/yellow peppers, cherry tomatoes, portabellini mushrooms and halumi were pretty damn amazing. 

Definitely going to be doing those again.

MMMMMM! Put some red onion in next time as well, together with a sprig of rosemary every here and there. 

[IceCreamMan]

So, just to extend the argument a little more, one can eat a sheep or cow but its illegal to shag it.

 

Think about that for a moment or 2, just let that sink in.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

So, just to extend the argument a little more, one can eat a sheep or cow but its illegal to shag it.

 

Think about that for a moment or 2, just let that sink in.

Must be what the shaggers were thinking...

 

[Chris_]

And I get that, I really do. But equating the sexual assault of a fellow human to eating a steak is intellectually dishonest. 

 

Would I eat dog? Well, me personally no. But that's because I wasn't raised in the east, where dog meat is as normal as beef, and there's a specific species of dog that is raised for its meat. 

 

Do I find the conditions that those dogs are raised and bred in to be abhorrent? Of course I do. No animal should have to go through that sort of treatment even if they end up on our table. 

 

And yet...

 

You surely see why this is pretty contradictory from your position.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

And yet...

 

You surely see why this is pretty contradictory from your position.

To a certain extent, yes. But then also, no. 

 

One has 2 options (there are really more, but let's boil it down to the 2 extremes of this case)

 

Disregard animal welfare entirely, and because they're gonna die anyway, who cares how they're treated. 

 

Or: 

 

Because they end up on my plate, I want them to be taken care of properly. 

 

I choose option 2, because even though I'm eating 'em, I don't want them to be raised like battery hens. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Goodbadugly]

What do you vegans see as animals?

Mammals. Including mice, rats

Reptiles. Including snakes.

Birds.

Fish.

invertebrates. Like plankton? 

Insects. Not only bees. Flies and mosquitoes as well.

Arachnids.

Bacteria.

Virus.

Prion.

[Rocket-Boy]

MMMMMM! Put some red onion in next time as well, together with a sprig of rosemary every here and there. 

Great idea! will definitely give that a go.

[Patchelicious]

What do you vegans see as animals?

Mammals. Including mice, rats

Reptiles. Including snakes.

Birds.

Fish.

invertebrates. Like plankton?

Insects. Not only bees. Flies and mosquitoes as well.

Arachnids.

Bacteria.

Virus.

Prion.

I think the line that Odi drew was sentient vs non-sentient?

[Rocket-Boy]

So I was thinking recently about some of the domesticated animals that are normally eaten like cows, sheep, chickens etc.

What if the whole world stopped eating meat tomorrow, what would their future be?

You cant exactly let a cow off into the wild, it wouldnt survive. Same goes for sheep and chicken.

Sure goats could survive on their own but they arent consumed for meat nearly as much as the others.

It no longer becomes viable to have grazing lands for them so do the species need to die out then?

[Chris_]

To a certain extent, yes. But then also, no. 

 

One has 2 options (there are really more, but let's boil it down to the 2 extremes of this case)

 

Disregard animal welfare entirely, and because they're gonna die anyway, who cares how they're treated. 

 

Or: 

 

Because they end up on my plate, I want them to be taken care of properly. 

 

I choose option 2, because even though I'm eating 'em, I don't want them to be raised like battery hens. 

 

I'm not sure how to reply to this, those two options are not quite aligned.

 

Welfare is more than just your plate. your second option is a lot more narrow than the first - why not include all aspects again. Then your options are - I don't care because they die anyway, or, I do care but they all die anyway. You see how this doesn't make sense(?).

 

It s nice that you can pick your free range cow to eat from a herd grazing your local farm. Are you also sure where your eggs come from? Milk? What about your clothes/shoes? What about products/drugs you use, were the animals tested on have such a good life? Its just a little bit wider than the single steak on your plate when considering welfare.

[Goodbadugly]

I think the line that Odi drew was sentient vs non-sentient?

Bacteria protect themselves from antibiotics. They even communicate this between themselves. Do they feel? Do they want to survive? How do we know?

Edited October 1, 2019 by Goodbadugly

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yeah, that's why I tried to make it as simplistic as possible. Essentially I see it like this. I'm gonna eat it, but I want it to lead a good life before I do.

 

As an answer to the other bits. I can do better. I know I can, and I try to ensure the passage to my plate is as ideal as possible. Sometimes I slip. But I don't let that drag me down to not caring anymore. It's also bloody difficult to ensure that it's as "ethical" as possible.