The Veganism Thread

[Eldron]

Really? Isn't that what humans have been doing for thousands and thousands of years? I grew up on a farm, I slaughtered and ate many sheep, I cleaned and ate fish all my life. I really don't get it why vegans think this should change mindsets.

 

I'd say the vast majority of people in the last 200 years did not grow up on farms or cut up their own animals and would probably find the whole experience a bit unpleasant.

 

That is not how most meat ends up on tables though - slaughterhouses are farkin nasty places. Have you ever been to one? Daaaaamn. An hour in one of those places would reduce meat eating by at least 80%...

[Kranswurm]

In the same way you get good and bad meat mince you get good and bad vegan mince.

 

Khorm I find a nit powdery and soft - Naturli is far better for curries etc. You can't really eat one kind of vegan mince and make informed opinions on all vegan mince.

 

If your son's curry was made with Naturli then ignore my post :-)

I have done a lot of hiking over the years where I was organiser and did the catering.

Soya mince was one of the staples and I swore that no one could tell the difference.Yeah right.They enjoyed it though.The secret is in the gravy/sauce and simmering it slowly and for a long time.I prefer it to the fancy mince veggie/vegan offerings.

[Odinson]

A statement in bad taste.

More harmful to the 'cause' than Gillette keelhauling male clients. 

Makes me think of a statement by an old guy when his opinion was asked on "fighting for peace".

His answer: Fighting for peace is like f@cking for virginity. 

 

A few things I do not get about vegans is the fakeness.

Food that looks like meat. WTF? 

Food that tastes like meat. Ditto.

Less environmental impact. And then you fly your fake food around the globe with A1 jetfuel. Ditto.

 

Regarding the 'fakeness' - in short, these mock meats are just an easy way for people to make the switch without having to sacrifice familiar flavours and dishes. It just shows you don't have to 'give anything' up when eating a plant-based diet. 

 

Regarding the environmental impact - there's no debate unfortunately. The research is clear: a plant-based diet has a smaller carbon and environmental footprint than a meat-based diet.*

 

https://www.wri.org/publication/shifting-diets

 

 

 

*It's a spectrum, though, so the footprint is dependent on each person's consumption. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Odinson

[Chris_]

Thats not exactly a revelation, we know that people put different animals on different places on the food/pet/spectrum. 

 

This wasn't the point of my post, I posted to ask if this PETA action is seen as a real attempt to change minds, or simply to get a reaction.  

 

The reality is that these types of tactics are more likely to create resentment towards ALL vegan and veganism (unfairly so) than it is going to actually convince people that their levels of morals are incorrect.

 

Do you think if they didn't have the dog braai it would have garnered any attention at all?

 

What actually is the difference between 'is seen as a real attempt to change minds, or simply to get a reaction.  ' then?

[Patchelicious]

I don't know who selected the quotes to put in the article and which side of the fence they sit.

 

But ' That supposed protest in Sydney is more inhumane than any slaughtering of animals' and 'How about stop pushing your agenda on everyone else' shows me that people are pleading catastrophic ignorance to the exact issues being raised. 

 

The problem with most people is that they refuse point blank to acknowledge certain things because it does not suit their personal agenda, and would rather stand there shouting with their hands covering their eyes and ears to block everything out.

I agree, so we know that most people will not react well to this, so why do it?

 

To make a point about them or to convert them?

 

At first I thought it was more to make a point about Veganism and animal rights, the more I think about it the more it seems it was done to make a point about the people who dont see the world in the same way as these vegans protestors do. Edited.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Patchelicious

[Eldron]

I have done a lot of hiking over the years where I was organiser and did the catering.

Soya mince was one of the staples and I swore that no one could tell the difference.Yeah right.They enjoyed it though.The secret is in the gravy/sauce and simmering it slowly and for a long time.I prefer it to the fancy mince veggie/vegan offerings.

 

Agreed. I find most vegan food a bit bland - you have to "overflavour" it when compared to flavouring meat.

 

The upside is that you learn to cook better - building flavour profiles becomes a challenge and the end result is way more varied.

 

Tofu for example - it's pretty yuck....until you marinade it overnight and fry it hot to create a nice form/crunchy layer with a soft centre. Awesome in soups, salads, curries etc.

[Patchelicious]

Do you think if they didn't have the dog braai it would have garnered any attention at all?

 

What actually is the difference between 'is seen as a real attempt to change minds, or simply to get a reaction.  ' then?

Not all attention is created equally. 

 

Do you honestly not know.

[Eldron]

 

At first I thought it was more to make a point about Veganism and animal rights, the more I think about it the more it seems it was done to make a point about the people who dont see the world in the same way as vegans do.

 

Well there is your problem - you seem to have summed up all vegans into a single point of view.

[Chris_]

Not all attention is created equally. 

 

Do you honestly not know.

 

From Peta's perspective, yes I'm asking you. Put the dog there and get a reaction. Or no dog and its just another party of people standing in a shopping centre wasting their time - same as they've done for how many years now? Where would you draw the line between the two? Or are they (Peta) only left with one option now?

[Patchelicious]

This is actually ridiculous. Here I am, somebody who supports the idea of veganism, is actively trying tom reverse 35 years of habits and culture, am more for the cause than against it, and I m trying to give you advice on how to convert more people like me and it gets shot down.

 

There was a PETA sign I saw in the underground the other day, I didn't eat meat for two days after it. It was simply a picture of a pig that looked sad. It appeals people compassion, but clearly some people are more eager for outrage and attention.

 

I have said many times, the cause is good, it makes sense, data supports it mostly etc, its an easy argument to win, but holy tofu guys, tone it down a bit.

 

Instead of being so blood thirsty to point the immorality, hypocrisy and attacking meat eaters, rather convince them and perhaps save more animals lives. 

 

If you cant even see that, how on earth can you expect that people will see your point.

[Mudsimus]

slaughterhouses are farkin nasty places. Have you ever been to one? Daaaaamn. An hour in one of those places would reduce meat eating by at least 80%...

I spent some time in a clients abbatoir once. Its nasty right, all bloody and smelly. But did it put me off from eating a healthy balanced diet? Nope.

 

My point is that all this propaganda of dogs on the barbecue and nasty slaughter houses will have a very small impact on peoples mindsets. It's just silly. Going vegan should be a personal choice. What other people eat is surely their choice. Surely you don't score extra vegan points if you convert a meat eater? Hope not.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Mudsimus

[Patchelicious]

Well there is your problem - you seem to have summed up all vegans into a single point of view.

You know thats not true. Lets not go down the road of you making up my positions and world views again.

 

If you want clarity, then ask.

 

I have edited my post to avoid these micro triggers.

[GrahamS2]

Well there is your problem - you seem to have summed up all vegans into a single point of view.

Much like all meat eaters are summed up as blood thirsty, animal killers by the vegan brigade?

[Odinson]

Anecdotal.... but this had a negative impact on my desire to become a vegan. 

 

People who have not yet made the mental change that you have, still have an uphill battle to do so, for many giving up the way they have lived and were brought up might not be as easy as it was for you. 

 

If you want to change the worlds eating habits, I suggest that you make it as easy as possible for them, and not paint the people who you are trying to convert as assholes while coming off as sanctimonious. People usually respond better if you dont do that.

 

These tactics will not convert the hard meat eaters, but it will chase away those who could be more inclined to switch. You seem to grasp this concept very well when we talk about political or religious spectrums, but not so much with this.

Note: this isn't a comparison of veganism to politics or religion, its about people on spectrums understanding and influencing each other.

 

Patch, I get what you're saying. I truly do. 

 

I think perhaps you need to consider a few things: 

1. Veganism is not about vegans - see below; 

2. You seem to consider activism as binary - an action will either be detrimental or beneficial to veganism. Having spent a lot of time looking into this and even based on interactions with folks, people have very disparate motivators. I've met vegans that are almost apathetic to animals, but are still vegan for other reasons or just because they can accept that animals have a basic right to life and dignity. On that basis, people react differently to activism. You might consider Peta's actions as detrimental, but it just might help a few folks open their eyes to look more closely at their relationship with animals. 

 

[Mudsimus]

Much like all meat eaters are summed up as blood thirsty, animal killers by the vegan brigade?

We also kick all dogs and throw cats with darts.

[Patchelicious]

From Peta's perspective, yes I'm asking you. Put the dog there and get a reaction. Or no dog and its just another party of people standing in a shopping centre wasting their time - same as they've done for how many years now? Where would you draw the line between the two? Or are they (Peta) only left with one option now?

Those are not their only two options. Why does this have to be so binary.

 

I am on your side here. Creating devision and anger is not the right way changing peoples minds in your favour.