Safety on the roads ... and cyclists behaviour...

[Quagga]

Why is it so difficult for ROAD USERSto simply not act like chops.

If we spent as much effort simply just being courteous as we spend on justifying why we did what, and stamping our cleats about rights, we would be in much better place.

 

Snip

Fixed it

[ChrisF]

It's a hard one - I think both the "It's your legal right" vs "But is it safe?" sides of the debate have some valid points and weaknesses. I agree it's cold comfort to your family if you get taken out riding on an "unsafe" spot even if you were legally within your rights to have been there.

 

The part that I do worry about when we do victim blaming or point out cyclists that "should have know better" is that we reinforce the idea that we are lesser road users that should not inconvenience the more important motorists. If we do "defensive cycling" aren't we just reinforcing the perception that we are intruding on motorist territory? Ultimately making it even less safe for cyclists because a "good" cyclist stay off the road on his mtb or at least out of the way while the "entitled" cyclists can only blame themselves when they get hurt.

 

and thus the conundrum ....

 

When to ride "defensively", vs when to ride "assertively" ....

 

FACT is there are so many stretches of road where it is just not possible to ride "defensively" ... broken or no shoulder to ride on, with not enough space for vehicles to pass safely ....  

 

 

certainly NO "victim blaming" from my side when cyclists ride assertively in these situations.  GLAD to see how many vehicles are now hanging back in these places until it is safe to pass .. 

 

 

 

Just SAD to see those few cyclists that stay in this mode even when they have ample space to ride defensively ....

 

 

all said and done "self preservation" really should guide each rider in each situation ....

[Pure Savage]

"Driving on the road requires a license and is a privilege where cycling is a right."

 

???????

Hence why you can be banned from driving a car but not banned from riding a bike or walking. 

[Pure Savage]

Hence why you can be banned from driving a car but not banned from riding a bike or walking. 

Not that a license stops people from not driving.

[shaper]

Do you ride defensively based on the facts or based on what a car might do? 

 

This thread has long passed the realms of fact, so why demand me to go back into that now? 

 

By the way, don't often see many roads with reduced speeds at blind rises, actually can't think of any. . . 

I ride aware of my surroundings and the vehicles/other cyclists/jay walkers around/in front me, so can be deemed defensive as each an every situation can have an impact.

 

Whilst the road traffic act states that most urban roads are normally 60km/hr a blind rise usually has a 40km/hr sign advising you to slow down and also a solid white line indicating that is unsafe to overtake.

 

You can check the design codes if you like.  Attached is the "Guidelines for Human Settlement Planning and Design"  Page 17, Table 7.15

 

By definition a blind rise has a very short length of vertical curve, hence the blind spot on the other side of the rise.  Design speed limit is 40km/hr

 

Perhaps you are too busy on your phone or in a rush to get somewhere to notice the reduced speed sign or white line markings?

Chapter_07_Vol_II_Roads.pdf

[Pure Savage]

I ride aware of my surroundings and the vehicles/other cyclists/jay walkers around/in front me, so can be deemed defensive as each an every situation can have an impact.

 

Whilst the road traffic act states that most urban roads are normally 60km/hr a blind rise usually has a 40km/hr sign advising you to slow down and also a solid white line indicating that is unsafe to overtake.

 

You can check the design codes if you like.  Attached is the "Guidelines for Human Settlement Planning and Design"  Page 17, Table 7.15

 

By definition a blind rise has a very short length of vertical curve, hence the blind spot on the other side of the rise.  Design speed limit is 40km/hr

 

Perhaps you are too busy on your phone or in a rush to get somewhere to notice the reduced speed sign or white line markings?

I find the line of sight stuff so interesting, especially when it goes from single to double white lines  for over taking.

[Patchelicious]

Fixed it

Good point, but there aren't many people here identifying as motorists, even though they should.

 

ALL road users; cyclists, motorist, taxis, pedestrians, horse carts..... should be more courteous to each other.

 

Edit: Ultimately its not the bicycle or the cars fault, but the rather the chop in control of the vehicle. The same sleeveless guy cycling in the middle of the road will likely drive his Fortuner like a box too.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Patchelicious

[ChrisF]

I find the line of sight stuff so interesting, especially when it goes from single to double white lines  for over taking.

 

been noting some seriously BAD new road markings ..... broken lines before blind rises, solid lines where it is obviously safe to pass ....

 

 

Even a dual lane turning arrow on Bill Bezuidenhout into a single lane road - brand new markings  (anybody know where I report this?)  Somebody may well turn from the second lane, straight into oncoming vehicles ..... 

[Quagga]

Good point, but there aren't many people here identifying as motorists, even though they should.

 

ALL road users; cyclists, motorist, taxis, pedestrians, horse carts..... should be more courteous to each other.

 

Edit: Ultimately its not the bicycle or the cars fault, but the rather the chop in control of the vehicle. The same sleeveless guy cycling in the middle of the road will likely drive his Fortuner like a box too.

1000000000% correct

[Phatman]

No. those are examples of collisions between vehicles. Do you not know the difference between a human being and a vehicle?

 

Please just stop now. You hit a pedestrian/cyclist with a car YOU are in the dwang. You don't sue the broken person for denting your car.

That was never what I said. Cyclist breaking a road rule can be argued to be a mitigating factor in determining liability, resulting in reduced or suspended sentence etc. Nobody said anything about suing an injured person for denting a car. Where did you get that from?

And no I won't "just stop" for you, open forum, if you don't like what I have to say, I believe there's a "block" or ignore feature, use it.

[Jase619]

Maybe go and read that book again that your read for your learners.....

 

Speed limit it that a LIMIT not a recommendation. 

 

They dont post reduced speeds when it rains either, YOU should know when to reduce speed.

 

Never argued the fact that it is a limit and not a recommendation, so not sure why I should go and check my book again. The general behavior of most of our population is testament to the fact that it is actually a recommendation, as most people tend to do more than the recommended speed limit at any given time. Taxis, Soccer moms in Fortuners, they all do this.

 

Again, it wasn't said that I should know how to slow down at blind rises, it was said that there is signs posted. I was contesting this fact, nothing to do with the rules in the rulebook. But it's fine, carry on attacking me, my skin is thick, I'm a hockey umpire

[Jase619]

I ride aware of my surroundings and the vehicles/other cyclists/jay walkers around/in front me, so can be deemed defensive as each an every situation can have an impact. So we agree then.

 

Whilst the road traffic act states that most urban roads are normally 60km/hr a blind rise usually has a 40km/hr sign advising you to slow down and also a solid white line indicating that is unsafe to overtake.

Agreed on the solid white line, that's a given if the road markings haven't faded. However, if you can show me in the Free State where one of these fabled lower speed signs are I will admit defeat, because I have NEVER seen one. Hence my confusion, obviously YMMV.

 

You can check the design codes if you like.  Attached is the "Guidelines for Human Settlement Planning and Design"  Page 17, Table 7.15 Unnecessary, I will take your word for it, just saying it hasn't been implemented here.  

 

By definition a blind rise has a very short length of vertical curve, hence the blind spot on the other side of the rise.  Design speed limit is 40km/hr

 

Perhaps you are too busy on your phone or in a rush to get somewhere to notice the reduced speed sign or white line markings? White line marking I see, much to the annoyance of most other vehicles on the road when you are stuck behind a truck, waiting to pass. As for the rest of your inference, meh, careful what you accuse people of, whether in comic sans or not, still makes you look like a child.

[shaper]

 

I ride aware of my surroundings and the vehicles/other cyclists/jay walkers around/in front me, so can be deemed defensive as each an every situation can have an impact. So we agree then.

 

Whilst the road traffic act states that most urban roads are normally 60km/hr a blind rise usually has a 40km/hr sign advising you to slow down and also a solid white line indicating that is unsafe to overtake.

Agreed on the solid white line, that's a given if the road markings haven't faded. However, if you can show me in the Free State where one of these fabled lower speed signs are I will admit defeat, because I have NEVER seen one. Hence my confusion, obviously YMMV.

 

You can check the design codes if you like.  Attached is the "Guidelines for Human Settlement Planning and Design"  Page 17, Table 7.15 Unnecessary, I will take your word for it, just saying it hasn't been implemented here.  

 

By definition a blind rise has a very short length of vertical curve, hence the blind spot on the other side of the rise.  Design speed limit is 40km/hr

 

Perhaps you are too busy on your phone or in a rush to get somewhere to notice the reduced speed sign or white line markings? White line marking I see, much to the annoyance of most other vehicles on the road when you are stuck behind a truck, waiting to pass. As for the rest of your inference, meh, careful what you accuse people of, whether in comic sans or not, still makes you look like a child.

 

You said, I said, they said, they saw.... is all irrelevant, whether you have seen them, not seen them the design is there and is fact not only with road signs and markings, but should be ingrained in you and every other driver that any blind rise is a reduce speed.

 

But as you say you are in the Free State you probably don't have many if any blind rises!

 

And if you take offence to a sarcastic tongue in cheek comment...you should be careful who looks like a child.

 

My comments on this debate are factual, relating to national road acts, design guides and good practice driving to comply with the law.... All I have seen from you is hypothetical and wild suggestions. .. If you now have to resort to name calling... it says a lot!

[Jase619]

You said, I said, they said, they saw.... is all irrelevant, whether you have seen them, not seen them the design is there and is fact not only with road signs and markings, but should be ingrained in you and every other driver that any blind rise is a reduce speed. Agreed, the designs are their, however based on observations of real world happenings, this is not ingrained in most drivers in this country.

 

But as you say you are in the Free State you probably don't have many if any blind rises! True, this I give you haha. However the Clarens/Fouriesburg areas have some damn big mountains, so we do have our fair share, just not many.

 

And if you take offence to a sarcastic tongue in cheek comment...you should be careful who looks like a child. It didn't really add much to the discussion, so don't really see the point of the accusation, comic sans or not. Not taking offence, just pointing out the fact it makes the whole conversation look pointless if you have to resort to sarcasm.

 

My comments on this debate are factual, relating to national road acts, design guides and good practice driving to comply with the law.... All I have seen from you is hypothetical and wild suggestions. .. If you now have to resort to name calling... it says a lot! If you take offence to a tongue in cheek comment, you should then look at your previous comment. . . . Same same

[Dicky DQ]

Not getting through all this bitching and moaning, blame, blame, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, fish-paste.

 

Bottom line is until law enforcement enforces the laws of this country, all of them, and the criminal system sentences transgressors, everyone is going to believe they are above the law.

 

As an aside, I still stop at red traffic lights and stop streets when road users are around. This is not ideal, but it is what it is.

 

When I cycle in a bunch and convince a few guys to stop with me to "assist in improving the image, I hope" the rest of the guys wait for us a way down the road. So why could they not stop in any event. The ride time ends up being the same.

[Eddy Gordo]

https://reviews.mtbr.com/video-cell-phone-driving-motorist-crashes-car-after-telling-cyclist-hes-safe