Shimano XTR Please help!!

[Iron]

My Two cents worth ,

 

if the clutch it Tooooooo tight and is not releasing quick enough then it does not hold tension and the chain then has enough time to allow the chain to pop off .

 

needs to be a happy balance between too tight and too loose 

 

remove the rd service the clutch and to get the tension fit a torx into the slot in the rd on the inner cage and set a torque wrench to 4NM to get a happy tension .

[dewaldsss]

Derailleur pulleys are correct, the bigger teeth pattern at the top.

Looks like a KMC chain, are you 100% sure its a 11speed chain and not a 10 speed?

Also have you checked for a twisted link? this can throw the chain off the pulleys.

Do you have a quick/master link on the chain?

Check the arrows as some of them (especially KMC) the arrow should show inwards. (image below)

[Spoke101]

I don't want to brand bash but I don't think this frame was ever designed to run 11spd and as a result there might be a fair amount of off-set on the chain line when in the 11/12t. I would think maybe having a lower jockey that had some lateral play might actually compensate for the chain angle, thus stopping the chin running at an angle on the jockey and solve your issue.

(hard to tel without the bike in front of you.)

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I don't want to brand bash but I don't think this frame was ever designed to run 11spd and as a result there might be a fair amount of off-set on the chain line when in the 11/12t. I would think maybe having a lower jockey that had some lateral play might actually compensate for the chain angle, thus stopping the chin running at an angle on the jockey and solve your issue.

(hard to tel without the bike in front of you.)

Erm... Chainline on the 11/12 t would be the same regardless of "speed" due to the proximity to the dropouts. Cassettes don't get wider at that end, rather at the dinner plate end where tehy're dished towards the spokes. 11/12 are always at the lock-ring. Never beyond that. And that stays in the same position regardless of 10/11/12. 

[DieselnDust]

IF there's a twisted link it will be very apparent as the chain would be skipping on the cassette when under tension.

If the chain is reversed its not as big a deal as Shimano makes it out to be. Shifting will just be a little slower toward the smaller sprockets (bigger gears)

 

Only other thing I can think of that is a potential cause is a worn chain ring. A worn chain ring will hold onto the chain longer releasing it in a manner that sets up a wave that will run toward the lower pulley wheel. this whipping action can derail the chain from the pulley wheel. Its doesn't take much to derail the chain from this wheel due to the low jockey cage tension that Shimano derailleurs are shipped with. They say it reduces drive train friction....

[Spoke101]

Erm... Chainline on the 11/12 t would be the same regardless of "speed" due to the proximity to the dropouts. Cassettes don't get wider at that end, rather at the dinner plate end where tehy're dished towards the spokes. 11/12 are always at the lock-ring. Never beyond that. And that stays in the same position regardless of 10/11/12. 

Yes in theory, but there are factors that make a difference the main one being tolerances. Now that they have squashed another gear in the same space the chain has to be narrower. The result is everything has to be perfect and one little issue that you would have never noticed on a 8/9/10spd cassette is now throwing your chain off.

[Iron]

think its a bit hard to diagnose this via a chat with pics , take a bit of each persons advise and give it a go , no one thing may fix this but perhaps a bit of all of them may .

 

all the best 

[Dicky DQ]

Derailleur pulleys are correct, the bigger teeth pattern at the top.

Looks like a KMC chain, are you 100% sure its a 11speed chain and not a 10 speed?

Also have you checked for a twisted link? this can throw the chain off the pulleys.

Do you have a quick/master link on the chain?

Check the arrows as some of them (especially KMC) the arrow should show inwards. (image below)

Will check, the reason for the different chain is I was looking to find a solution and the chain had done about 800km

[DieselnDust]

Nothing wrong with KMC chains. That will not be the cause of the derailment unless there is a stiff link (you will hear the chain skipping a tooth or two.

[Dicky DQ]

IF there's a twisted link it will be very apparent as the chain would be skipping on the cassette when under tension.

If the chain is reversed its not as big a deal as Shimano makes it out to be. Shifting will just be a little slower toward the smaller sprockets (bigger gears)

 

Only other thing I can think of that is a potential cause is a worn chain ring. A worn chain ring will hold onto the chain longer releasing it in a manner that sets up a wave that will run toward the lower pulley wheel. this whipping action can derail the chain from the pulley wheel. Its doesn't take much to derail the chain from this wheel due to the low jockey cage tension that Shimano derailleurs are shipped with. They say it reduces drive train friction....

Chain Ring has less than 300km, Casette less than 400km, chain has less than 300km.

 

Have tried original round XTR 32 chainring, XTR chain XTR Casette This is how it came out,

then tried with XTR 32 chainring, Sunrace casette, XTR chain

Then back to XTR 32 chainring, XTR chain XTR Casette

Then 36 oval Absolute black chainring, XTR chain XTR Casette

Then 32 oval Absolute black chainring, KCMC chain XTR Casette

 

Still the same no matter what the mix

 

Chainline is fine as it is straight when in the middle of the casette. 

[slickjay007]

Chain Ring has less than 300km, Casette less than 400km, chain has less than 300km.

 

Have tried original round XTR 32 chainring, XTR chain XTR Casette This is how it came out,

then tried with XTR 32 chainring, Sunrace casette, XTR chain

Then back to XTR 32 chainring, XTR chain XTR Casette

Then 36 oval Absolute black chainring, XTR chain XTR Casette

Then 32 oval Absolute black chainring, KCMC chain XTR Casette

 

Still the same no matter what the mix

 

Chainline is fine as it is straight when in the middle of the casette. 

 

Did you have this issue with the original setup?

[DieselnDust]

what frame is all this hanging from?

[Spoke101]

Momsen AL629 if I remember correctly.

what frame is all this hanging from?

[Dicky DQ]

Did you have this issue with the original setup?

Yes

[Sllab]

Just a thought - I had some issues with a short cage derailleur that sound like this. Turned out that with a 42 cog on the back, the derailleur wasn’t able to maintain sufficient chain tension at the bottom of the range. So chain slap caused wear problems when in the 11 sprocket at the bottom. Its worth checking which derailleur length you have, and is it suited to the cluster on the bike.

[s14phoenix]

Only issue I ever had with this same model XTR was with KMC chain (X11SL) - don't get me wrong I really like their chains but it is definitely not designed with this model XTR for 2 reasons:

 

1 - New XTR derailleur wheels (specifically the top wheel) has thicker teeth than the width of the gaps in the chain plates - thus the chain does not sit nicely into the jockey wheel.

 

2. the measured width of the wider chain links are very narrow and narrower than the XTR chain. This can cause the chain to slip between the cage and wheels more easily than with the XTR chain.

 

I am not saying this is your problem but considering there is a chance the your chain is hopping or vibrating off the wheel on rough surfaces and you have lost such a considerable amount of material on the cage and there is a possibility of slop and movement in the pulley wheels themselves you could have a compounded problem with not only 1 component to blame but general wear and tear requiring maintenance or component replacement.

 

I have about 4000km of trouble free riding with my XTR 11sp running a SRAM 10-42 XX1 cassette for added range and XTR long cage derailleur and shifter.with Wolftooth XTR 1x chainring in 36 34 or 32.

 

2c in die emmer.