The Abortion Issue

[Stretch]

Even though the doctors may be wrong in their diagnoses? As happened to my wife and I?

 

go listen to that story I posted and give me an honest opnion about how you really feel about that

[Robbie Stewart]

what if you wife's life was in danger if she was to give birth. A very strong chance that she may die due to a post natal bleed? what would your decision be?

 

So we're back to full-term abortion again. If my wife wen't into labour and suffered from a post-natal bleed, I would expect her doctor to do all he can to save both my wife and my child, and if either passed, it would not be because I, or my wife, elected to abort the child. It would be because despite trying everything possible, they still succumbed.

[Robbie Stewart]

I would say she has 95% of the decision and you have 5%. My opinion. That's all. You are not going to change that!

 

Okay, I am not trying to change your opinion, as I am confident no-one will change mine. I am just trying to understand.

 

I am also not in attack/defend mode, I am just engaging in constructive debate. We can all shake hands afterwards, and go enjoy a beer.

[Stretch]

So we're back to full-term abortion again. If my wife wen't into labour and suffered from a post-natal bleed, I would expect her doctor to do all he can to save both my wife and my child, and if either passed, it would not be because I, or my wife, elected to abort the child. It would be because despite trying everything possible, they still succumbed.

 

so you basically would not trust the doctors medical opinion and leave everything to blind hope or faith?

 

edit - not full term abortion. I know of an actual case where a lady was told she could not get pregnant again because her life was in danger if she did. Despite using multiple birth control, one slipped passed the goalie and she became pregnant. within the first trimester, once she knew she was pregnant, she had to make that decision

[Robbie Stewart]

go listen to that story I posted and give me an honest opnion about how you really feel about that

 

I will go listen to her story.

[Skubarra]

Okay, I am not trying to change your opinion, as I am confident no-one will change mine. I am just trying to understand.

 

I am also not in attack/defend mode, I am just engaging in constructive debate. We can all shake hands afterwards, and go enjoy a beer.

 

"no-one will change my opinion" does not equal "engaging in constructive debate"

 

If you have made your mind up and no opposing opinion will sway you then what is really the point of this discussion?

[Robbie Stewart]

so you basically would not trust the doctors medical opinion and leave everything to blind hope or faith?

 

edit - not full term abortion. I know of an actual case where a lady was told she could not get pregnant again because her life was in danger if she did. Despite using multiple birth control, one slipped passed the goalie and she became pregnant. within the first trimester, once she knew she was pregnant, she had to make that decision

 

No, I would trust my doctors medical opinion, but not before I have seen him do all he can to avoid the scenario. If my wife were to be in a life threatening situation, and the doctors have exhausted every medical avenue to save her, I would accede to have her life saved, whatever that looks like.

 

But this is an extreme circumstance, requiring extreme medical intervention. This scenario equates to less than 1% of abortions performed globally in a year, and cannot be the overarching reason to abort a perfectly healthy baby with a mother who is perfectly healthy, just because she is not ready for a child. 

 

This argument slants away from the issue at hand.

 

 

[Robbie Stewart]

"no-one will change my opinion" does not equal "engaging in constructive debate"

 

If you have made your mind up and no opposing opinion will sway you then what is really the point of this discussion?

 

The point (from my perspective) is to be a voice for those who have no voice.

[gummibear]

Over 7 billion people in the world.....most are well below any decent standard of living....

 

Pro abortion here....

The poor can't afford proper abortions so they resort whatever they can.

 

Ever seen what a 16 year old from the townships looks like after she's been to a herbalist for an abortion.Seen plenty in my life and not something you'll forget.

 

Coat hangers,iron rods and knitting needles are used to abort the foetuses.

[Stretch]

No, I would trust my doctors medical opinion, but not before I have seen him do all he can to avoid the scenario. If my wife were to be in a life threatening situation, and the doctors have exhausted every medical avenue to save her, I would accede to have her life saved, whatever that looks like.

 

But this is an extreme circumstance, requiring extreme medical intervention. This scenario equates to less than 1% of abortions performed globally in a year, and cannot be the overarching reason to abort a perfectly healthy baby with a mother who is perfectly healthy, just because she is not ready for a child. 

 

This argument slants away from the issue at hand.

 

 

 

But it doesn't slant away from the issue at hand - if whatever it took meant that it required a termination of pregnancy and it was not legal in your country  - what would you and your wife do?

[Skubarra]

The poor can't afford proper abortions so they resort whatever they can.

 

Ever seen what a 16 year old from the townships looks like after she's been to a herbalist for an abortion.Seen plenty in my life and not something you'll forget.

 

Coat hangers,iron rods and knitting needles are used to abort the foetuses.

 

So what do you suggest is the solution for poor people in this situation?

[gummibear]

So what do you suggest is the solution for poor people in this situation?

Proper education on birth control and sex to both boys and girls.

 

Morning after pill at clinics.

 

Male and female birth control more freely available to poor communities.

[Robbie Stewart]

But it doesn't slant away from the issue at hand - if whatever it took meant that it required a termination of pregnancy and it was not legal in your country  - what would you and your wife do?

 

Circular argument being applied.

 

If it is not legal, and my wife is terminal on a theater bed, what do you expect me to do?

 

If she is in terminal danger, she will die. That is the hard fact. Will I like it? NO! Can I do anything to change it? NO! It's illegal. If the doctor had a medical reason for saving my wife, and did so, and that cost my unborn child her life, would I be happy? Yes, that my wife is alive, NO, that my child died. Would I be angry at the doctor? No, as he was doing his best to keep both alive, and has taken a oath to preserve life at any cost.

 

But again, that does not justify abortion. This thread is about aborting a child, not saving a dying mother's life.

[Mojoman]

Proper education on birth control and sex to both boys and girls.

 

Morning after pill at clinics.

 

Male and female birth control more freely available to poor communities.

I fully agree, more preventive controls, catch the problem before you even have to get to the abortion/keep it stage. 

[Stretch]

Circular argument being applied.

 

If it is not legal, and my wife is terminal on a theater bed, what do you expect me to do?

 

If she is in terminal danger, she will die. That is the hard fact. Will I like it? NO! Can I do anything to change it? NO! It's illegal. If the doctor had a medical reason for saving my wife, and did so, and that cost my unborn child her life, would I be happy? Yes, that my wife is alive, NO, that my child died. Would I be angry at the doctor? No, as he was doing his best to keep both alive, and has taken a oath to preserve life at any cost.

 

But again, that does not justify abortion. This thread is about aborting a child, not saving a dying mother's life.

 

I am not talking about at the point of delivery. I am talking about a situation where a medical specialist has given a diagnosis early on in the pregnancy that carrying a child to full term would very likely kill a mother. 

 

Ask your wife that question tonight. if there was a strong chance that she would die based upon the diagnosis of medical specialist and you knew this in the first trimester, would she consider termination.

[SwissVan]

There is no debate about abortion unless it's for a rape victim or the health of the mother or baby.

 

Abortion is not a birth control method

Unfortunately that’s an issue best left to the mother, the one who has to go through the process.

 

Governments, Popes, people who have never been in that situation cannot comprehend the full situation.

 

Legal or not, people are still going to do it. Rather have the option to do it properly than force them to do something illegal and dangerous.

 

Walk a mile in another’s shoes first comes to mind.