The Gender Thread

[Patchelicious]

Unless anyone here has transitioned, the entire discussion will be premised on 2nd hand information, anecdote, recycled internet opinions and 'gut feel'.

This could apply for anything we discuss or debate on this forum.

[Stretch]

This is where I want to sit down with such a person and have a conversation. Except that I'll not be able to put into words the questions I want to ask.

I'd like to understand things like why they thought they were in the wrong body. Maybe even go back in their life to see if there wasnt a trigger or a series of events that lead to that feeling.

And why and how they realised it was a physical body problem rather than a mental problem.

A bit of shock therapy to zap the gender identity crisis out of them maybe?

[Readsalot]

Tell you a funny story. After my sis had her op, we went to see friends of mine play in a band. As we went to say hello, one of my friends wanted to know who my date was. Mind you, this was a guy who had plenty of interaction with my sis when she was still my brother!

 

It took him a good few minutes to recognise her, while we were just having a silent laugh.

 

There is absolutely no point to this story, except maybe as a reminder that we 'straights' are more frequently the punchline in these stories and discussions than we realise, simply because we have little to no interaction with their communities, while they are part of our communities without us even realising it.

[popcorn_skollie]

I want to start off slowly and work our way towards a common understanding before the pitchforks come out. How do we establish someones gender. I'm not asking how many genders there are. Whether you think there are 2 or 8 it really irrelevant at this point but we'll get to that. My first question is simple. How do we establish someones gender? If we meet certain biological criteria is our gender inherently imposed upon us? Or is gender self defined? Free from these constraints whether they are biological anomalies or not?

[Readsalot]

 

 

How do we establish someones gender? If we meet certain biological criteria is our gender inherently imposed upon us? Or is gender self defined? Free from these constraints whether they are biological anomalies or not?

IMO layman's opinion, it's self-defined.

[Stretch]

I want to start off slowly and work our way towards a common understanding before the pitchforks come out. How do we establish someones gender. I'm not asking how many genders there are. Whether you think there are 2 or 8 it really irrelevant at this point but we'll get to that. My first question is simple. How do we establish someones gender? If we meet certain biological criteria is our gender inherently imposed upon us? Or is gender self defined? Free from these constraints whether they are biological anomalies or not?

You need to ask a genetic scientist that question. I have absolutely no idea. But it's not a simple case of what physical features you are born with....which is still (as far as I'm aware) the primary means of defining your gender to this day Edited May 15, 2019 by Stretch

[popcorn_skollie]

IMO layman's opinion, it's self-defined.

 

So by self definition. Can we assume that if someone identifies with being of a certain gender. That genitalia, chromosomes or any other biological criteria should be considered irrelevant?

Edited May 15, 2019 by popcorn_skollie

[Readsalot]

So by self definition. Can we assume that if someone identifies with being of a certain gender. That genitalia, chromosomes or any other biological criteria should be considered irrelevant?

Again, in my layman's opinion, yes. If you want to be a girl and you have the money, you can become a girl in every physical and biological sense, and vice versa (as far as I know).

[The Ouzo]

A bit of shock therapy to zap the gender identity crisis out of them maybe?

I'm not sure of the tone of your response, but I will respond anyway.

 

To me (and I've admitted to not being educated on the subject), if you exclude the physical differences between male and female, alot of what we think of gender, roles, feelings, traits, behavior etc. is influenced by our environment. At some point a person that believes they are in the wrong body would have gone through a process where they have thought it was all in their head and they need to get that right.

I am also of the (again uneducated) opinion that some transitions are purely a result of psychological factors 

[The Ouzo]

Again, in my layman's opinion, yes. If you want to be a girl and you have the money, you can become a girl in every physical and biological sense, and vice versa (as far as I know).

but just because you can, does it mean you should ?

[Readsalot]

but just because you can, does it mean you should ?

If it makes you happier and improves the quality of your life, is there any reason you shouldn't?

[popcorn_skollie]

Again, in my layman's opinion, yes. If you want to be a girl and you have the money, you can become a girl in every physical and biological sense, and vice versa (as far as I know).

 

Good to know. I'd like to hear more people answer the same question though. 

[porqui]

A bit of shock therapy to zap the gender identity crisis out of them maybe?

 

Not what he said - just read it as it was written.

[Stretch]

I'm not sure of the tone of your response, but I will respond anyway.

 

To me (and I've admitted to not being educated on the subject), if you exclude the physical differences between male and female, alot of what we think of gender, roles, feelings, traits, behavior etc. is influenced by our environment. At some point a person that believes they are in the wrong body would have gone through a process where they have thought it was all in their head and they need to get that right.

I am also of the (again uneducated) opinion that some transitions are purely a result of psychological factors 

 

I was being very sarcastic because that is how homosexuality was "treated" not too long ago. Why are people quick to assume that living outside of the norms of what we believe are how things should be, can automatically be a cause of an environment or the person's mental state of mind. genetics is very complex, but the fact that people can be born intersex leads me to believe that it is very possible that you can be born a female in a males body or vica versa

[Patchelicious]

A bit of shock therapy to zap the gender identity crisis out of them maybe?

Bit uncalled for considering his relatively well toned questions.

[Patchelicious]

I was being very sarcastic because that is how homosexuality was "treated" not too long ago. Why are people quick to assume that living outside of the norms of what we believe are how things should be, can automatically be a cause of an environment or the person's mental state of mind. genetics is very complex, but the fact that people can be born intersex leads me to believe that it is very possible that you can be born a female in a males body or vica versa

Do you disagree that environmental circumstances can play a role?