XT m8100/SLX m7100

[MORNE]

The xtr 9100 shifter is marketed as 11/12 speed compatible via a setscrew on the shifter itself.

 

I Wonder if it is then safe toassume the XT8100/SLX7100 versions can be set up the same (trickle down tech and all) by just getting the xtr9100 11/12spd shifter. They don't make it blatantly obvious anywhere but they do however state that the new SLX-XT-XTR components are cross compatible. Shimano is known for 'locked' out tech in lower end versions that can be manually unlocked using some minor modifications.

 

This  opens a whole new avenue of cheap upgrades to eventually end up at 12 speed but not having to buy new derailleurs and shifters...just the initial investment of the xtr shifter...which is the industry benchmark for shifting performance imo anyway. - should you obviously want to go this route and cash in on cheap 11 speed cassettes etc.

 

EDIT: guess it should work a treat

Edited July 30, 2019 by morneS555

[Grootgert]

I would go 1x11 with a 50t cog. The 12 is great but I can't recall wanting that extra gear. And being a big guy... Maybe a x11 will be better. More pin material to wear through than the x12.

Thanks, that is something to think about. I'll crunch the numbers on the gear ratios, because my standard 2x10 setup has never left me wanting a lower gear. Maybe a 1×11 will be just fine, as you say.

[Grootgert]

The xtr 9100 shifter is marketed as 11/12 speed compatible via a setscrew on the shifter itself.

 

I Wonder if it is then safe toassume the XT8100/SLX7100 versions can be set up the same (trickle down tech and all) by just getting the xtr9100 11/12spd shifter. They don't make it blatantly obvious anywhere but they do however state that the new SLX-XT-XTR components are cross compatible. Shimano is known for 'locked' out tech in lower end versions that can be manually unlocked using some minor modifications.

 

This opens a whole new avenue of cheap upgrades to eventually end up at 12 speed but not having to buy new derailleurs and shifters...just the initial investment of the xtr shifter...which is the industry benchmark for shifting performance imo anyway. - should you obviously want to go this route and cash in on cheap 11 speed cassettes etc.

 

EDIT: guess it should work a treat

Thanks Morné, it does look like something to explore Edited July 30, 2019 by Grootgert

[EVOBIKES ONLINE STORE]

The xtr 9100 shifter is marketed as 11/12 speed compatible via a setscrew on the shifter itself.

 

I Wonder if it is then safe toassume the XT8100/SLX7100 versions can be set up the same (trickle down tech and all) by just getting the xtr9100 11/12spd shifter. They don't make it blatantly obvious anywhere but they do however state that the new SLX-XT-XTR components are cross compatible. Shimano is known for 'locked' out tech in lower end versions that can be manually unlocked using some minor modifications.

 

This  opens a whole new avenue of cheap upgrades to eventually end up at 12 speed but not having to buy new derailleurs and shifters...just the initial investment of the xtr shifter...which is the industry benchmark for shifting performance imo anyway. - should you obviously want to go this route and cash in on cheap 11 speed cassettes etc.

 

EDIT: guess it should work a treat

Yip, That is the beauty of the new XTR shifter... You can use for 11 or 12 speed and mix with SLX or XT 11 and 12 speed RD's. We selling quite a few nowadays as - let's call it "gear kits" - Shifter and RD package. Customers then add their own preferred chain/cassette - KMC/Sunrace/SRAM/E-Thirteen/Shimano/KCNC etc.

 

Options are then endless especially when it comes to hubs on the wheelset you are riding.

[RobertWhitehead]

Now that you ask so nicely I will give you my point : 

 

Let's start at the most obvious and my original statement: 

 

• SHIMANO XT M8000 11SP UPGRADE KIT 11/46 @ R 3 999.00
• SRAM GX/NX EAGLE TRIGGER UPGRADE KIT 1X12 (BLK) @ R 5 299.00

​Saving of R1300.00 for a kit which you'll partially need to replace again due to wear in around 2000km (cassette, shifter cable & chain)

 

Now, let's have a look at the numbers and what said extra R1300.00 buys you: 

 

Based off the two attached images you can see that on the high end of the spectrum - 120 cadence (bouncing on the saddle territory) you'll be able to have a maximum speed of: 48km/h on the 11 speed and a max speed of 52.7km/h on the 12 speed. So my question: How often do we as mtbers achieve a maximum speed of 52.7km/h and for how long do we ride at these speeds? The answer is simple, not even 5-10% of the total ride therefore one can just as well leave it out of the argument because it won't add significant value to the riding experience. 

 

Then on the flip side let's look at the lowest gear figures: 0,76 in the 46T cog versus 0,69 in the 51T cog (numbers based off a 12 speed Shimano cassette 10-51T). You'll also notice that in said gear at a cadence of 120 you'll actually be slower on the 12 speed cassette by 1km/h. Even at a climbing cadence of 60rpm you'll be 0,5km/h slower on the 12 speed than you'll be on the 11 speed. 

 

So my point: The 11 speed is cheaper, faster in the lowest gear and the ratio is marginally bigger on the 11 speed. Granted, you may be pedaling slightly harder in the lowest gear whilst going up a climb but, at least you'll reach the top slightly faster therefore reducing your suffering.

So just because there's a 12 speed option available does not mean you need to go for it. 

 

 

No **** 

 

What's your point?

Edited July 30, 2019 by RobertWhitehead

[nonky]

Thanks, that is something to think about. I'll crunch the numbers on the gear ratios, because my standard 2x10 setup has never left me wanting a lower gear. Maybe a 1×11 will be just fine, as you say.

 

Also, look at what the consumables cost - chain, cassette, chainring - and evaluate your purchase based on your annual mileage.

 

You live in Centurion, so there's not that many big hills around that justify the 50t over a 42t or 46t.

 

My 2c.  

[Grootgert]

Also, look at what the consumables cost - chain, cassette, chainring - and evaluate your purchase based on your annual mileage.

 

You live in Centurion, so there's not that many big hills around that justify the 50t over a 42t or 46t.

 

My 2c.

Yes, consumables are a consideration.

 

I have to update my profile, we have moved to Hartenbos 3 years ago, so I do a fair amount of climbing.

 

That said, my standard SLX 2×10 gear ratios are quite adequate.

 

I need to replace because of wear: my drivetrain has now done 14000 km without any replacements except a new chain every 3000km. I might as well upgrade...

 

I am starting to see the light, XT 1x11 with 32 at the front and 11-42 at the back should be quite adequate and make the most sense.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Grootgert

[Grootgert]

Now that you ask so nicely I will give you my point :

 

Let's start at the most obvious and my original statement:

 

• SHIMANO XT M8000 11SP UPGRADE KIT 11/46 @ R 3 999.00
• SRAM GX/NX EAGLE TRIGGER UPGRADE KIT 1X12 (BLK) @ R 5 299.00

​Saving of R1300.00 for a kit which you'll partially need to replace again due to wear in around 2000km (cassette, shifter cable & chain)

 

Now, let's have a look at the numbers and what said extra R1300.00 buys you:

 

Based off the two attached images you can see that on the high end of the spectrum - 120 cadence (bouncing on the saddle territory) you'll be able to have a maximum speed of: 48km/h on the 11 speed and a max speed of 52.7km/h on the 12 speed. So my question: How often do we as mtbers achieve a maximum speed of 52.7km/h and for how long do we ride at these speeds? The answer is simple, not even 5-10% of the total ride therefore one can just as well leave it out of the argument because it won't add significant value to the riding experience.

 

Then on the flip side let's look at the lowest gear figures: 0,76 in the 46T cog versus 0,69 in the 51T cog (numbers based off a 12 speed Shimano cassette 10-51T). You'll also notice that in said gear at a cadence of 120 you'll actually be slower on the 12 speed cassette by 1km/h. Even at a climbing cadence of 60rpm you'll be 0,5km/h slower on the 12 speed than you'll be on the 11 speed.

 

So my point: The 11 speed is cheaper, faster in the lowest gear and the ratio is marginally bigger on the 11 speed. Granted, you may be pedaling slightly harder in the lowest gear whilst going up a climb but, at least you'll reach the top slightly faster therefore reducing your suffering.

So just because there's a 12 speed option available does not mean you need to go for it.

Very interesting insigh Robert, thank you.

 

I see you mention cassette replacement around 2000km. I have now done 14000km on my drivetrain with no replacements,except a new chain every 3000km.????

[MORNE]

Yip, That is the beauty of the new XTR shifter... You can use for 11 or 12 speed and mix with SLX or XT 11 and 12 speed RD's. We selling quite a few nowadays as - let's call it "gear kits" - Shifter and RD package. Customers then add their own preferred chain/cassette - KMC/Sunrace/SRAM/E-Thirteen/Shimano/KCNC etc.

 

Options are then endless especially when it comes to hubs on the wheelset you are riding.

Hi Naas. Cant seem to find the loose XTR 9100 11/12 speed shifter in the store though? is it available loose yet? id definitely be up for pairing it with the xt mech and a 11 speed cassette in the not too distant future.

The microspline casettes are also a no-go for me untill Hope sort out their licensing thing with shimano...but shimano should see the light soon as they will be losing out big time in that department to sunrace et al. lol

[EVOBIKES ONLINE STORE]

Hi Naas. Cant seem to find the loose XTR 9100 11/12 speed shifter in the store though? is it available loose yet? id definitely be up for pairing it with the xt mech and a 11 speed cassette in the not too distant future.

The microspline casettes are also a no-go for me untill Hope sort out their licensing thing with shimano...but shimano should see the light soon as they will be losing out big time in that department to sunrace et al. lol

Just added them...

 

https://www.evobikes.co.za/shimano-xtr-sl-m9100-11-12-speed-shift-lever-righ.html

[EVOBIKES ONLINE STORE]

Hi Naas. Cant seem to find the loose XTR 9100 11/12 speed shifter in the store though? is it available loose yet? id definitely be up for pairing it with the xt mech and a 11 speed cassette in the not too distant future.

The microspline casettes are also a no-go for me untill Hope sort out their licensing thing with shimano...but shimano should see the light soon as they will be losing out big time in that department to sunrace et al. lol

Yes - especially with the Sunrace 10/50 XD cassettes arriving soon and retailing between R2500 and R4400 for the top end...

[RobertWhitehead]

Sorry, I was "ball-parking", but you can even go with an 11-46T with an oval in the front to eliminate the dead spots. 

 

But ya, the cassette doesn't really need to be replaced along with the chain unless you ride your chain well past it's life expectancy  . 

 

  

Very interesting insigh Robert, thank you.

I see you mention cassette replacement around 2000km. I have now done 14000km on my drivetrain with no replacements,except a new chain every 3000km.

[Falling Over]

Any idea when the SLX 4-piston brakes will be available? Really keen to get my hands on a pair of those.

[Traveler]

Yes, consumables are a consideration.

 

I have to update my profile, we have moved to Hartenbos 3 years ago, so I do a fair amount of climbing.

 

That said, my standard SLX 2×10 gear ratios are quite adequate.

 

I need to replace because of wear: my drivetrain has now done 14000 km without any replacements except a new chain every 3000km. I might as well upgrade...

 

I am starting to see the light, XT 1x11 with 32 at the front and 11-42 at the back should be quite adequate and make the most sense.

 

Forget all the fancy talk, go 12spd. There is no comparison in riding experience, the 12spd cassette changes in ratio is so small you do not feel it in your cadence. You do not necessarily have to go for the 1x12 you can also consider the 2x12 option offered by Shimano. 

 

1x10 and 1x11 is like cheap optics. It is the down payment on the eventual expense you will have on buying what you were suppose to from the beginning. 

[Iron]

Yip, That is the beauty of the new XTR shifter... You can use for 11 or 12 speed and mix with SLX or XT 11 and 12 speed RD's. We selling quite a few nowadays as - let's call it "gear kits" - Shifter and RD package. Customers then add their own preferred chain/cassette - KMC/Sunrace/SRAM/E-Thirteen/Shimano/KCNC etc.

 

Options are then endless especially when it comes to hubs on the wheelset you are riding.

Umm . this is note true ,

 

originally it was designed to run on the new 11speed microspline cassette ( these cassettes have since been discontinued before they even launched ) with a RDM9100SGS for the enduro riders . the actuation of this shifter wont work on the current 11speed rd's and the new XT and SLX no longer have this function .

 

this is my understanding ............

 

this layout was 

[DieselnDust]

Yes the XT 11 speed chainrings is 100% compatible with other 1 x 12 cassettes/chains.  New 12 speed crankset  is available - chainrings will be loaded later today.

 

https://www.evobikes.co.za/components/cranksets/shimano-xt-fc-m8100-1-12-speed-crank-without-chainring-175mm.html

 

 

XT 12 speed chain however only compatible with XT 12 speed chainrings and XT 12 speed cassette...

 

 

??

Why would it be only compatible with XT 12 speed? the chain is a little narrower than the 11speed chain but its not narrower than the SRAM Eagle 12s chains. Where is the compatibility issue?