Shimano 12 Speed compatibility

[Fitbull]

I am looking at going to Shimano 12 speed but I am not sure about compatibility

 

I currently have a 2x11 and was looking at just getting an upgrade kit however I have heard this will not work. I was looking to stay 2x initially but just with the 10-45 on the back, money saving as I wont have to get a new crank and hopefully chainrings just yet.

 

What I have been told is that the chain will no longer work with my chainrings because of the "pitch" of the chain.

 

Now if there is a problem with the "pitch" of the chain how can there be upgrade kits? Surely everybody even the 1x11 riders need to change their chainrings as well? And if I do need to change chainrings is this possible without changing the crank?

 

Ultimately I would like the flexibility that the shimano 12 speed is supposed to offer i.e. the best of both worlds, 1x or 2x depending on how you're feeling on the day... but I have been told that you cannot run the 10-45 and the 10-51 you can only do either/or which doesnt make sense. I can understand there may be one derailleur that can only handle the 10-51 but surely this should also work with the 10-45???? Chain lengths would of course have to change understandably.

 

In short I want to go 2x12 using my existing cranks/chainrings/front derailleur with the 10-45 for now but in future I want the flexibility of buying a 1x crank and running the 10-51.

 

Can this be done.

 

Looking forward to all you tech-sperts answers! 

 

[Rudii]

Was wondering the same thing, currently have a 2 x 11 XT setup. Will follow this thread closely.

[W@nted]

For the 10-51 you will need a new rear freehub with the microspline setup of the casette. Alternatively you can use the aftermarket 11-50 casettes that will fit on the standard shimano freehub. Not sure about the pitch story. Many went form 2x10 or 2x11 to 1x systems without any issues with chain pitch. The issue might be that the 12 speed chain is too narrow for the 11 speed front chainrings.

Edited September 23, 2019 by W@nted

[Jehosefat]

The Shimano 12 speed chain will not work with an 11 speed chainring (also Shimano but m8000). I know this from personal experience because I have the 12 speed upgrade kit sitting at home that I cannot use until my new chainring arrives.

 

Also, as a side note, getting the rear derailleur to work with a direct mount hanger is also a bit of a pain in the ass and requires a bit of a bodge job.

[DieselnDust]

I am looking at going to Shimano 12 speed but I am not sure about compatibility

 

I currently have a 2x11 and was looking at just getting an upgrade kit however I have heard this will not work. I was looking to stay 2x initially but just with the 10-45 on the back, money saving as I wont have to get a new crank and hopefully chainrings just yet.

 

What I have been told is that the chain will no longer work with my chainrings because of the "pitch" of the chain.

 

Now if there is a problem with the "pitch" of the chain how can there be upgrade kits? Surely everybody even the 1x11 riders need to change their chainrings as well? And if I do need to change chainrings is this possible without changing the crank?

 

Ultimately I would like the flexibility that the shimano 12 speed is supposed to offer i.e. the best of both worlds, 1x or 2x depending on how you're feeling on the day... but I have been told that you cannot run the 10-45 and the 10-51 you can only do either/or which doesnt make sense. I can understand there may be one derailleur that can only handle the 10-51 but surely this should also work with the 10-45???? Chain lengths would of course have to change understandably.

 

In short I want to go 2x12 using my existing cranks/chainrings/front derailleur with the 10-45 for now but in future I want the flexibility of buying a 1x crank and running the 10-51.

 

Can this be done.

 

Looking forward to all you tech-sperts answers! 

 

 

 

Shimano 12 speed MTB is not compatible with Shimano 11 speed in any way.

The 12 to 11 speed  conversion of the new stuff happens at the shifter. It just blocks off the last ratchet to make it 11 speed. The pitch of the chain is the same but the chain has differently shaped inner and outer plates so it won;t fit properly on the 11 speed chain ring teeth. It will likely work but be very noisy. the spacing between the sprockets is narrower so you will have to use a 12 speed chain.

 

lastly switching between 2x and 1x is not as easy as they make it sound as the derailleurs required for each set up is different. For 2x you will need the RD 9120-GS. For 1x you will need the RD9100 GS or SGS. that's a lot of extra parts. the same hold true for XT and SLX.

 

So to switch between x1 and 2x you will need a different set of chainrings as well as a different rear derailleur and a different length chain and be limited to the 10-45 cassette.

Edited September 23, 2019 by DieselnDust

[Rudii]

Does the 12 speed chain ring fit on the M8000 crankset?

[Jehosefat]

Does the 12 speed chain ring fit on the M8000 crankset?

 

Not as far as I know. I think all the m8100 chainrings are direct mount.

[Rudii]

Not as far as I know. I think all the m8100 chainrings are direct mount.

So in addition to the upgrade kit you still need to buy the crank set, rear hub and possibly the BB also.

[Jehosefat]

So in addition to the upgrade kit you still need to buy the crank set, rear hub and possibly the BB also.

 

Depends on the BB and hub I guess. I have a DT Swiss rear hub so I only had to get the microspline freehub. And going from a m8000 to m8100 I didn't need to replace the BB either.

[DieselnDust]

Depends on the BB and hub I guess. I have a DT Swiss rear hub so I only had to get the microspline freehub. And going from a m8000 to m8100 I didn't need to replace the BB either.

 

 

You won't need a new BB as the axles are still 24mm.

[Fitbull]

so the "upgrade kit" is only really half a kit!   Going to be some seriously pissed off people out there and I hope they all get the correct rear derailleurs and dont get stuck with the GS which wont work with the 51T cassette. I at least see the 9100-SGS derailleur will work with the 45T and 51T cassette

 

I think I will just stay with my 2x11 for a while longer till all this stuff gets sorted out and hopefully some after market suppliers come up with a few "better" solutions. Perhaps KCNC will come up with a chain that will be more compatible across the ranges.

 

Seems to me Shimano are shooting themselves in the foot with this one. At least the SRAM Eagle upgrade is fairly straight forward, I think.... 

[DieselnDust]

so the "upgrade kit" is only really half a kit!   Going to be some seriously pissed off people out there and I hope they all get the correct rear derailleurs and dont get stuck with the GS which wont work with the 51T cassette. I at least see the 9100-SGS derailleur will work with the 45T and 51T cassette

 

I think I will just stay with my 2x11 for a while longer till all this stuff gets sorted out and hopefully some after market suppliers come up with a few "better" solutions. Perhaps KCNC will come up with a chain that will be more compatible across the ranges.

 

Seems to me Shimano are shooting themselves in the foot with this one. At least the SRAM Eagle upgrade is fairly straight forward, I think.... 

 

 

I already know of at least one person who was sold an upgrade kit with a M-9100-GS  derailleur kit for a 10-50 Sunrace cassette. It didn't work very well. He only figured it out when I pointed out that the reason he's shifting to the 50 was not functioning was because he had the incorrect derailleur. He was still fighting with the bike shop a week before K2C.

 

THE UPGRADE KIT IS REALLY ONLY A CONVERSION KIT FOR BIKES ALREADY RUNNING A 12SPEED SYSTEM. IT IS NOT A SHIMANO 11S UPGRADE TO 12S.

 

this disclaimer should be present on the packaging of all "upgrade" kits or do your homework thoroughly

[Reinardt]

Hi Guyz

 

I’m running the M9000 crank with a 34 tooth M9000 chain ring and M9100 chain, derailleur and shifter with the M8100 cassette. About 1000km and it has not skipped a beat. Drivetrain is silent compared to my 1x11 xt set up on my other bike. I’m no tech guru but saying its working for me.

[MudLark]

How does the Shimano 12x system compare to the SRAM 12x system?

[DieselnDust]

How does the Shimano 12x system compare to the SRAM 12x system?

 

 

IMO it doesn't measure up. Shimano philes will praise the lighter feeling shift. It just doesn't feel as solid and I'm betting its not going to have the longevity of the Eagle drivetrain, especially that of the XO1 and XX1 drivetrains.

The crank will eventually be a hit when they figure out how to manufacture it.

The hubs will certainly be amongst the best but I reserve judgement on Microspline. Smaller freehub bearings can't be a good thing. Maybe race day wheels....

 

For now SRAM is the technological leader and they are very well established in the OEM space.I haven't needed the excellent warranty but they've made running changes and as a consequence have updated my brakes at one of the services. The suspension units are cheap and easy to service. I really can't see how Shimano can better the SRAM offering

[Marcv]

Hi

 

In December we bought my dad a giant with GX 12s on it. From day 1 it wasn't great and didn't really measure up to the hype. Six months later my dad was tired of the poor shifting and upgraded to XTR 12s on the GX cassette.....crisp as can be.

 

With regards to X01 and XX1, they just so over priced. You can get 2 XT upgrade kits for one X01 or 1 XTR and save R4000 compared to one X01. So while the durability of XT is unproven I doubt X01 will last double the time of an XT set up.

 

By now you have guessed I am a "Shimano phile" but I do have an issue with the way they have done the licensing of the micro spline technology, I think this is a major stumbling block for someone like me who uses Hope hubs.

 

As for the compatibility question I was told the same thing about the pitch of the chain which made no sense to me. However the advice I got was to simply run a KMC 12s chain as I wanted to run the 12s 11 - 50 Sunrace cassette with XT and my existing crank and 11s chainring. I think this is the set up I am going to settle on but if anyone has tried it and it hasn't work please share