Sram Level Ultimate vs Shimano XTR

[Markellis]

what is your all up rider and bike weight?

If over 90Kg you may want to consider the Race Evo E4 or the Tech 3 E4

 

If under 90Kg for all up weight then the Race Evo X2 or Tech X2 should suffice.

I'm a over 100 on a good day (a very good day), plus about 12kg bike

 

Thanks will check out the brakes you recommended.

[intern]

Just throwing a spoke in here. I've used XTR and XT brakes in the past. I have Level Ultimate or whatever the top SRAM ones are now. They are crap.

There's a bike shop here which immediately removes SRAM brakes off every new bike and fits Shimanos in their place before selling the bike. They do this because the hassles of all the comebacks and endless tuning of the SRAM brakes, and unhappy customers, is just not worth it. As a consequence, you can routinely buy new SRAM brakes 'secondhand' for next to nothing.

[keithbe]

More like "fly to the turd"

 

i like how you call people out to be "Shimano-philes" in other threads but you religiously preach sram lol. Double standards much? anyway...again...i don't care...i'm just the oil to your water

[sirmoun10goat]

Just throwing a spoke in here. I've used XTR and XT brakes in the past. I have Level Ultimate or whatever the top SRAM ones are now. They are crap.

There's a bike shop here which immediately removes SRAM brakes off every new bike and fits Shimanos in their place before selling the bike. They do this because the hassles of all the comebacks and endless tuning of the SRAM brakes, and unhappy customers, is just not worth it. As a consequence, you can routinely buy new SRAM brakes 'secondhand' for next to nothing.

Yes, because then when the Shimanos have issues or need a bleed and never feel the same again, they can sell you a new set

[captain morgan]

Formula R1 or Cura any day ...

[DieselnDust]

Cura is great bang for your buck

[Trunnion]

I run Cura 4 on my trail bike and love them. The only minor complaint is the pad clearance that is a bit tight and can touch the disc from time to time. On the up side I am still on the original pads, these things just seem to last forever. I would have gone through 4 sets Shimano pads by now.

 

I have also been debating between the different top end brakes for a lightweight Highball hardtail I am building up and had a look at R1, XTR M9100 and LEVEL ULTIMATES. I am liking my Cura 4's so much that I have been tempted to go the R1 route, but reports of tight pad clearance worry me. The new Level Ultimates are pigs in the weight department, they weigh as much as my Cura 4's! Their new calipers are screwed together 2 piece instead of the previous monoblock. The sceptic in me says it was to make manufacturing easier and cheaper, they will probably claim easier bleeding... So I am leaning towards XTR...

 

 

 

[DieselnDust]

I run Cura 4 on my trail bike and love them. The only minor complaint is the pad clearance that is a bit tight and can touch the disc from time to time. On the up side I am still on the original pads, these things just seem to last forever. I would have gone through 4 sets Shimano pads by now.

 

I have also been debating between the different top end brakes for a lightweight Highball hardtail I am building up and had a look at R1, XTR M9100 and LEVEL ULTIMATES. I am liking my Cura 4's so much that I have been tempted to go the R1 route, but reports of tight pad clearance worry me. The new Level Ultimates are pigs in the weight department, they weigh as much as my Cura 4's! Their new calipers are screwed together 2 piece instead of the previous monoblock. The sceptic in me says it was to make manufacturing easier and cheaper, they will probably claim easier bleeding... So I am leaning towards XTR...

 

Errrr have a look at the hose lengths in those photographs. The SRAM brakes hoses are uncut while the Shimano's are cut to shorter length. Can't see what pads are fitted (resin or metal?). The weight for the XTR is certainly lighter than the set I had by around 60gr so is there some trickery going on there.

 

Formula's philosophy (when I queried the pad life with them) is that they design the brakes to work with a hard pad with steel backing (despite them also offering a light weight pad with Al back and resin based brake material). This is for better heat transfer. They also feel that the hard pads give a wider performance envelope and the durability is a nice secondary positive. They do recommend that the pads and rotors are replaced at the same time and I would certainly follow that advice as the pads do wear ridges into the disc rotor which will then wear a new set of pads faster.

One thing about that tighter pad clearance is when the brakes are subject to long braking i.e. people who drag the brakes on descents,  the pads can start rub excessively on the rotor as the fluid expands beyond what the diaphragm can cope. If you are the draggy brakerer type then a system with piston travel adjust might be a worthwhile investment.

 

I would not be too concerned with a two piece caliper vs a monobloc. A titanium or steel bolt will resist the clamping forces better than the thin aluminium bridges designed into monobloc calipers. 

 

PS: the Formula, SRAM and HOPE brakes are all DoT Fluid based. All will require cleaning without the use of any petroleum based brake cleaners and will need a DoT Fluid compatible grease when lubing up the pistons. 

mineral oil based systems are a little more tolerant of home mechanic servicing methods.

 

I would still er on the side of a DoT fluid system just because they tend to work better.

Edited October 10, 2019 by DieselnDust

[Trunnion]

Errrr have a look at the hose lengths in those photographs. The SRAM brakes hoses are uncut while the Shimano's are cut to shorter length. Can't see what pads are fitted (resin or metal?). The weight for the XTR is certainly lighter than the set I had by around 60gr so is there some trickery going on there.

 

Formula's philosophy (when I queried the pad life with them) is that they design the brakes to work with a hard pad with steel backing (despite them also offering a light weight pad with Al back and resin based brake material). This is for better heat transfer. They also feel that the hard pads give a wider performance envelope and the durability is a nice secondary positive. They do recommend that the pads and rotors are replaced at the same time and I would certainly follow that advice as the pads do wear ridges into the disc rotor which will then wear a new set of pads faster.

One thing about that tighter pad clearance is when the brakes are subject to long braking i.e. people who drag the brakes on descents,  the pads can start rub excessively on the rotor as the fluid expands beyond what the diaphragm can cope. If you are the draggy brakerer type then a system with piston travel adjust might be a worthwhile investment.

 

I would not be too concerned with a two piece caliper vs a monobloc. A titanium or steel bolt will resist the clamping forces better than the thin aluminium bridges designed into monobloc calipers. 

 

PS: the Formula, SRAM and HOPE brakes are all DoT Fluid based. All will require cleaning without the use of any petroleum based brake cleaners and will need a DoT Fluid compatible grease when lubing up the pistons. 

mineral oil based systems are a little more tolerant of home mechanic servicing methods.

 

I would still er on the side of a DoT fluid system just because they tend to work better.

 

Yes there does seem to be a difference of hose lengths. I went and checked and the Shimano is  front 1000mm, rear 1700mm. Sram is front 950mm and rear 2000mm. I also checked and zoomed in on the original picture and the Shimano brakes do have the pads in. You could say the front Shimano and Sram brakes are close enough with Shimano only having a 50mm longer hose length. The difference is then approx 61g x 2 = 122g for a set. That is a really large amount for top end brakes. 

 

My complaint about the Sram being 2 piece wasn't strength related but rather they are cheaping out by making their manufacturing cheaper and selling a mid range weight brake set for top end prices. Their previous design was much lighter.

 

Interestingly enough not only have my pads in the Cura 4 been really great wear wise but there is also hardly any wear in my discs. I have been running this set for 7 months now, about 3700km of riding.

 

Ja some people are mineral oil obsessed. I don't really mind either way, the fluid would not be the deciding factor for me.

[DieselnDust]

Yes there does seem to be a difference of hose lengths. I went and checked and the Shimano is  front 1000mm, rear 1700mm. Sram is front 950mm and rear 2000mm. I also checked and zoomed in on the original picture and the Shimano brakes do have the pads in. You could say the front Shimano and Sram brakes are close enough with Shimano only having a 50mm longer hose length. The difference is then approx 61g x 2 = 122g for a set. That is a really large amount for top end brakes. 

 

My complaint about the Sram being 2 piece wasn't strength related but rather they are cheaping out by making their manufacturing cheaper and selling a mid range weight brake set for top end prices. Their previous design was much lighter.

 

Interestingly enough not only have my pads in the Cura 4 been really great wear wise but there is also hardly any wear in my discs. I have been running this set for 7 months now, about 3700km of riding.

 

Ja some people are mineral oil obsessed. I don't really mind either way, the fluid would not be the deciding factor for me.

 

 

Interesting. the pics are from r2-bike. they list a set of Level Ultimate at 219gr (Gold). then other sets at 255gr.

[Trunnion]

Interesting. the pics are from r2-bike. they list a set of Level Ultimate at 219gr (Gold). then other sets at 255gr.

 

Yes! That gold set is the previous monoblock caliper version.

[MudLark]

The modulation on the SRAM brakes I could live with. That wasn't an issue although I do prefer Shimano's "clean bite". But what I couldn't handle anymore was the shrieking of the SRAM TLMs. Not even changing the pads helped.

[DieselnDust]

The modulation on the SRAM brakes I could live with. That wasn't an issue although I do prefer Shimano's "clean bite". But what I couldn't handle anymore was the shrieking of the SRAM TLMs. Not even changing the pads helped.

Did you change the rotors?

[Be4dawn]

Hey guys

 

Im in need of some advise Ive got shimano XT brake on my bike, would xtr brake pads fit?

[BaGearA]

Hey guys

 

Im in need of some advise Ive got shimano XT brake on my bike, would xtr brake pads fit?

Yes

 

https://www.cogentindustries.co.za/product/braking-brake-pads-for-shimano/

 

Select your model here and then the site will auto select the right pad for you

[MarcL]

Hi Hubbers -

 

Can anyone give me the difference in braking between these 2 ???

 

I assume both is very light but when it comes to braking power, which one is better option and why??

 

How do they compare to each other on muddy and wet terrain???