Shimano 105 goes 12-speed with Di2 electronic shifting

[bleedToWin]

1 hour ago, Dexter-morgan said:

Lets hope the "old stock" Rim brake Ultegra Di2, goes on sale soon so I can get my hands on a set.

Lots of lightly used ones going around at great prices!

[bleedToWin]

17 minutes ago, Schnavel said:

Considering this is meant to be the "workhorse" groupset, the pricing structure is ridiculous and puts it out of the reach of many people. I mean $1400 for a 105 groupset?! 🤢

105 Di2 is not meant to be the "workhorse" groupset or the "groupset of the people" though. It's only purpose is to offer electronic at a lower price point with some minor penalties.

[bleedToWin]

14 hours ago, ScottFoil said:

Would you buy the new Shimano 105 Di2 12spd? 

Or just stick to 105 11spd mechanical?

The intention is that you should decide between 105 12spd electronic or Ultegra 11spd mechanical.

The good enough cover all your bases groupset will remain 105 mechanical.

[Mongoose!]

1 hour ago, bleedToWin said:

Lots of lightly used ones going around at great prices!

where ? not on Bikehub...

[bleedToWin]

7 minutes ago, Mongoose! said:

where ? not on Bikehub...

They go around, but they don't hang around. 😉

Teammate recently built up a sick Ridley Noah with a hardly used first gen Ultegra Di2 rimbrake groupset. Maybe set an alert?

[Mongoose!]

2 hours ago, bleedToWin said:

They go around, but they don't hang around. 😉

Teammate recently built up a sick Ridley Noah with a hardly used first gen Ultegra Di2 rimbrake groupset. Maybe set an alert?

jip definitively not "lots"

[Hilton.]

I think this is a disappointing development, from a customer range perspective. It further entrenches the argument that cycling is becoming the sport of the wealthy, at the expense of the masses.

Sure, you can argue that they've just "shifted the labels around", to make the new 105 Di2 equivalent to the old Ultegra mechanical, and that us peasants must now be happy to buy Tiagra (going to 12 speed next year?) or 11-speed 105 mechanical.

I love my 105 mechanical disc road bike, but it sucks that when the time comes to get a new bike, 105 may well be out of range. At £1700, it will cost about R35k for the groupset alone, making OEM carbon bikes with 105 cost about R70k minimum? Currently, you can get a carbon 105 road bike from about R45k up, or alu 105 bike for R20k or so.

From road.cc: "if there were any top-down decisions being made by Shimano here it could be that electronic groupsets are actually cheaper to make and easier to work with than mechanical; but that alone wouldn't have been nearly enough to take a massive gamble if the numbers didn't stack up."

and: "Shimano binning mechanical shifting ... To some of you that won't be something to celebrate... but numbers will have been meticulously crunched before this decision was arrived at, and unfortunately you're probably in the far less lucrative minority." Great. 🤕

[Mongoose!]

1 hour ago, Hilton. said:

At £1700, it will cost about R35k for the groupset alone,

wishful thinking

what about exchange rate / import tax / supply demand shortages  Coolheat?

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Mongoose! said:

wishful thinking

what about exchange rate / import tax / supply demand shortages  Coolheat?

I worked out about R42k roughly half dura ace

thata rrp

[Mongoose!]

43 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I worked out about R42k roughly half dura ace

thata rrp

R 14 000 per kg 

[DieselnDust]

just to reinforce what I'vebeen saying about disc brakes, Hambini weighs in with a reaming:

"

I think Shimano could have shot themselves in the foot with 105 Di2. Not by ditching mechanical shifting - that was coming as it's way cheaper for them to implement electronic shifting now the development cost has gone. It's the ditching of rim brakes. I've done a few basic calcs. Essentially you can't ditch the amount of heat a road bike brake will generate, keep the aerodynamics and stop the disc warping at the same time. Pick two of the three. I'm not surprised that Chris Froome has his reservations, there is a misconception that an MTB with it's heavy weight is easy to stop with discs. The issue is the speed involved is much slower and thus the energy involved is less. More on this coming. I have also updated the Elitewheels review with Aero data. https://www.hambini.com/elite-wheels-... And finally, tomorrow The new Winspace wheels are being introduced! TDF coming.

Show less

 

 

 

710

 

 

 

 

 

317

[ChrisF]

On 7/3/2022 at 11:44 AM, DieselnDust said:

just to reinforce what I'vebeen saying about disc brakes, Hambini weighs in with a reaming:

"

I think Shimano could have shot themselves in the foot with 105 Di2. Not by ditching mechanical shifting - that was coming as it's way cheaper for them to implement electronic shifting now the development cost has gone. It's the ditching of rim brakes. I've done a few basic calcs. Essentially you can't ditch the amount of heat a road bike brake will generate, keep the aerodynamics and stop the disc warping at the same time. Pick two of the three. I'm not surprised that Chris Froome has his reservations, there is a misconception that an MTB with it's heavy weight is easy to stop with discs. The issue is the speed involved is much slower and thus the energy involved is less. More on this coming. I have also updated the Elitewheels review with Aero data. https://www.hambini.com/elite-wheels-... And finally, tomorrow The new Winspace wheels are being introduced! TDF coming.

Show less

 

 

 

710

 

 

 

 

 

317

 

Disc brakes .... mountain passes .... MTB e-BIKE .... it gets "interesting" !!!

 

Franschhoek pass is "okay".  The first U-bend at the top you have not picked up a lot of speed, brakes work perfect.  For the rest you hardly touch the brakes, if traffic allows, until you get to the second U-bend.  Full taps until you get into the dorp .... nice fresh brakes to slow you down past the museum.

 

Coming down from Table mountain cable car .... completely different experience !!  Couple of short sharp down sections, followed by sharp turns .... now those disc brakes WORK .....  could feel the brake fade towards the last turn and "nipping" on the approach to the traffic circle.

 

Swartberg pass .... thanks to the blind turns and terrain I dont go full speed here, and the brakes hold up better.  Even so I prefer a short stop shortly after "Droe Waterval", to rest the brakes before getting to the faster section at the bottom.

 

Gifberg pass ..... OUCH !!!  Started with a standard saddle, ended with a Power Saddle ....  Two very steep sections have been tarred .... so very easy to misjudge and pick up too much speed .....  Approaching this bend, with a shear cliff drop to the side the brakes had enough !!  Three finger grab on both levers barely slowed down the bike.   Yes, this was after a good long down section, and the brakes had worked hard by now.

 

 

A 100kg person on a racing bike pushing the limits down some Alpine slope with hairpin after hairpin ..... have to wonder how much the disc brakes will take before fading ....

 

 

EDIT ...brakes, not breaks 🤦‍♂️

Edited July 17, 2022 by ChrisF

[Yyyy]

I think the 105 Di2 is great for those wanting electronic shifting at a more " relative cheaper" price.

But I am wondering if this is end for any further R&D into mid to high tier mechanical groupsets (except for Campy).

If 11 speed mechanical is discontinued, anyone wanting something more than Tiagra might not be able to afford that big jump to 105 Di2.

This may be premature but on the face of it, this does seem like Shimano (and Sram) are basically not interested in the large middle market. 

May seem frustrating now , but if this causes a gap in the market then I am sure someone else will see the opportunity and fill it.....

Edited July 3, 2022 by YaseenEnos

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

Disc brakes .... mountain passes .... MTB e-BIKE .... it gets "interesting" !!!

 

Franschhoek pass is "okay".  The first U-bend at the top you have not picked up a lot of speed, breaks work perfect.  For the rest you hardly touch the breaks, if traffic allows, until you get to the second U-bend.  Full taps until you get into the dorp .... nice fresh breaks to slow you down past the museum.

 

Coming down from Table mountain cable car .... completely different experience !!  Couple of short sharp down sections, followed by sharp turns .... now those disc brakes WORK .....  could feel the break fade towards the last turn and "nipping" on the approach to the traffic circle.

 

Swartberg pass .... thanks to the blind turns and terrain I dont go full speed here, and the breaks hold up better.  Even so I prefer a short stop shortly after "Droe Waterval", to rest the breaks before getting to the faster section at the bottom.

 

Gifberg pass ..... OUCH !!!  Started with a standard saddle, ended with a Power Saddle ....  Two very steep sections have been tarred .... so very easy to misjudge and pick up too much speed .....  Approaching this bend, with a shear cliff drop to the side the brakes had enough !!  Three finger grab on both levers barely slowed down the bike.   Yes, this was after a good long down section, and the breaks had worked hard by now.

 

 

A 100kg person on a racing bike pushing the limits down some Alpine slope with hairpin after hairpin ..... have to wonder how much the disc breaks will take before fading ....

And at what point is the cross over from a good rim brake to disc brake at road bike speeds ? It will vary. Even e-bikes brakes  don’t have to absorb as much energy as a road bike brakes.

[Mongoose!]

4 hours ago, YaseenEnos said:

 

If 11 speed mechanical is discontinued, anyone wanting something more than Tiagra might not be able to afford that big heavy jump to the 3.067kg 105 Di2.

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Mongoose!

[Rocket-Boy]

Wow, has the world gone insane? since when is it ok for 105 to cost more than R15k for a groupset? 

Im glad I have no need or desire to upgrade anything on my bike at this point, it seems its probably cheaper to have a drug addiction than be a cyclist these days!!