What's for lunch?

[Cardio Goth]

One point that hasn't, I don't think, been mentioned is that your gut and your response to different types of food can be trained. I train and ride fasted a fair amount because that's what I've been doing for years. Occasionally I'll go for a long ride and not eat until 2 or 3 pm.

It's rare that I will have a gel or something like that when I'm on the IDT, fasted or not, but it does happen, normally if I'm training in the afternoon. I have the same two gels and Clif Bloks that I've been taking on rides and not eating for the last 3 months - this isn't some kind of self-discipline or anything like that, I'm just used to not eating on rides under 3 hours because that's what I've unwittingly trained myself to do. Don't overthink it, listen to your body.

[Jewbacca]

29 minutes ago, Cardio Goth said:

One point that hasn't, I don't think, been mentioned is that your gut and your response to different types of food can be trained. I train and ride fasted a fair amount because that's what I've been doing for years. Occasionally I'll go for a long ride and not eat until 2 or 3 pm.

It's rare that I will have a gel or something like that when I'm on the IDT, fasted or not, but it does happen, normally if I'm training in the afternoon. I have the same two gels and Clif Bloks that I've been taking on rides and not eating for the last 3 months - this isn't some kind of self-discipline or anything like that, I'm just used to not eating on rides under 3 hours because that's what I've unwittingly trained myself to do. Don't overthink it, listen to your body.

Dear Cardio Goth

Understand that this is coming from a complete luddite with terrible nutrition habits and from a place of love, but just because something 'works' doesn't mean it is 'optimal'.

I would suggest that you could (and would) up your performance, recovery and general wellbeing by having better nutritional intake habits.

I also 'ride fasted' (I'm usually late and don't have time to poo and eat) or run without having eaten. I also occasionally only eat my first meal in the afternoon, sometimes having ridden and run.

I can assure you that the days and weeks I have a more balanced fuel intake, my recovery, my general wellbeing, mindset, concentration, energy levels, awareness etc are 1 gazillion times better than when I am too lazy/disorganised to eat and drink properly around exercise.

I CAN do it, I do it, I operate, but it is 100% not optimal. 

 

[Cardio Goth]

2 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Dear Cardio Goth

Understand that this is coming from a complete luddite with terrible nutrition habits and from a place of love, but just because something 'works' doesn't mean it is 'optimal'.

I would suggest that you could (and would) up your performance, recovery and general wellbeing by having better nutritional intake habits.

I also 'ride fasted' (I'm usually late and don't have time to poo and eat) or run without having eaten. I also occasionally only eat my first meal in the afternoon, sometimes having ridden and run.

I can assure you that the days and weeks I have a more balanced fuel intake, my recovery, my general wellbeing, mindset, concentration, energy levels, awareness etc are 1 gazillion times better than when I am too lazy/disorganised to eat and drink properly around exercise.

I CAN do it, I do it, I operate, but it is 100% not optimal. 

 

Yeah, I totally get that, @Jewbacca, and I've seen what has happened when I've tried to push it a little too far.

For me, even if it's not optimal, it does help me to feel more confident about long efforts where I may not be properly fueled for whatever reason. I'm also lucky that I can eat pretty much anything, at any point, on a long effort - I've never had any kind of gastric distress mid-effort - so my gut probably makes up for my ignorance and poor decision-making.  

[devvydoesdonuts]

This was interesting after reading through this thread.

[tjommies3]

So here I am thinking that I would be doing a 1h40m HM as planned. I woke up at around 4am yesterday, having a few sips of water and eating dates before starting my fast. I did my warm up which is adductor and abductor stretches to fire up the glutes, followed by a 300m jog. I got to my starting point and said to myself that I need to crank it up. I did, and ran just under 92 minutes blowing my previous PB out of the water by about 5 minutes. No intention to rave about the time that I posted but more on the mental input as opposed to the dietary input. If you want to, and you have some decent training over the last few months to back it up, you can psych yourself to perform better than usual.

Edited April 20, 2023 by tjommies3

[dave303e]

18 minutes ago, tjommies3 said:

So here I am thinking that I would be doing a 1h40m HM as planned. I woke up at around 4am yesterday, having a few sips of water and eating dates before starting my fast. I did my warm up which is adductor and abductor stretches to fire up the glutes, followed by a 300m jog. I got to my starting point and said to myself that I need to crank it up. I did, and ran just under 92 minutes blowing my previous PB out of the water by about 5 minutes. No intention to rave about the time that I posted but more on the mental input as opposed to the dietary input. If you want to, and you have some decent training over the last few months to back it up, you can psych yourself to perform better than usual.

ya but you mentally cannot psych yourself up that much to run a new pb every day. otherwise we would all have runners high every single day. It just doesn't work like that no matter how much someone on a podcast says you can. There is no substitute for good nutrition. You don't put 5 liters of old petrol out of a rusty petrol can in a formula 1 car and expect it to win the race...

[tjommies3]

16 minutes ago, dave303e said:

ya but you mentally cannot psych yourself up that much to run a new pb every day. otherwise we would all have runners high every single day. It just doesn't work like that no matter how much someone on a podcast says you can. There is no substitute for good nutrition. You don't put 5 liters of old petrol out of a rusty petrol can in a formula 1 car and expect it to win the race...

EVERY day is a bit much. I'm sure that most of us here don't even train daily. Not sure which podcast you may be referring to as I don't listen to any. For myself, and I stress FOR MYSELF, my diet is spot on for what I want to do. I've trained myself to get by, and have set my goals on getting the best for myself, on as little as possible. I set my goals for all distances up to a marathon. the only 3 that still need to happen are a sub 40' 10k, sub 90' HM and a sub 3h30m marathon. 1k, 1m, 15k, 25k, 30k have all been achieved. So I'm pretty chuffed about that. Also, all my goals are realistic for my abilities, and maybe I can push them even more if I want to chase more PBs.

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

19 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Dear Cardio Goth

Understand that this is coming from a complete luddite with terrible nutrition habits and from a place of love, but just because something 'works' doesn't mean it is 'optimal'.

I would suggest that you could (and would) up your performance, recovery and general wellbeing by having better nutritional intake habits.

I also 'ride fasted' (I'm usually late and don't have time to poo and eat) or run without having eaten. I also occasionally only eat my first meal in the afternoon, sometimes having ridden and run.

I can assure you that the days and weeks I have a more balanced fuel intake, my recovery, my general wellbeing, mindset, concentration, energy levels, awareness etc are 1 gazillion times better than when I am too lazy/disorganised to eat and drink properly around exercise.

I CAN do it, I do it, I operate, but it is 100% not optimal. 

 

It really depends on the kind of training. There is a massive difference in how your body burns energy (and what kind of energy) between a relaxed 45 minute zone 2 IDT session and a hour long hills / sprint session. One you can do fasted if you must and you'll probably still benefit, the other you're better off just skipping if you aren't fed probably because otherwise someone is going to have to carry your limp body to the nearest Engen for a Coke. Baby, bathwater imo

[Jewbacca]

7 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

It really depends on the kind of training. There is a massive difference in how your body burns energy (and what kind of energy) between a relaxed 45 minute zone 2 IDT session and a hour long hills / sprint session. One you can do fasted if you must and you'll probably still benefit, the other you're better off just skipping if you aren't fed probably because otherwise someone is going to have to carry your limp body to the nearest Engen for a Coke. Baby, bathwater imo

Again though, I said it 'works' but isn't 'optimal'.... Nowhere does it say 'don't bother'

You 'can' and i 'do'. I'm even guilty of heading off on a 13 peaks mission without having eaten since the night before with my first meal/food due in Hout Bay.

It isn't Optimal, so the whole point of this thread is not 'what works to allow you to survive', but rather what would be BEST.

Doing stuff without fuel is not best. Neither is not eating after exercise. 

Optimising input for output is not the same as surviving output with your current input.

[Cardio Goth]

26 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Again though, I said it 'works' but isn't 'optimal'.... Nowhere does it say 'don't bother'

You 'can' and i 'do'. I'm even guilty of heading off on a 13 peaks mission without having eaten since the night before with my first meal/food due in Hout Bay.

It isn't Optimal, so the whole point of this thread is not 'what works to allow you to survive', but rather what would be BEST.

Doing stuff without fuel is not best. Neither is not eating after exercise. 

Optimising input for output is not the same as surviving output with your current input.

I think I'm on the same page as you, to be honest, but another part of my thinking is around preparing for sub-optimal situations - you don't always have access to X grams carbs an hour, or Maurten only or whatever.

If you can ready yourself for that during training, even if you're consciously acknowledging that there will be a performance hit at the time, you are both physiologically and psychologically better equipped to deal with sub-optimal situations, rather than stressing out or bonking 90 minutes into a ride because you forgot your Clif Bloks at home. But that's just my way of thinking and it's not, as you say, the best solution for optimal fuelling.