Riding tips for my 10 year old son

[Kuys]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:53 PM, Dirk Stoffberg said:

Hi Kuys, Sounds great, please send me more info.

PM send

[Eugene]

I'm not going to be popular with this answer. 

He is 10, don't over analyse his racing. Let him ride and he will learn and gain experience with time. 

 

 

[Bichael Dewing]

2 minutes ago, Eugene said:

I'm not going to be popular with this answer. 

He is 10, don't over analyse his racing. Let him ride and he will learn and gain experience with time. 

 

 

My view on it as well..

Things don’t always go smoothly, you’re going to fall, and encouragement to get up and finish the race would be a more important lesson to me.. 

[DJR]

.........some of those infamous crazy night time Dual Slalom races at the Dirtopia Festivals come to mind as a VERY good school in how to overtake uncooperative people, touch, shove,, bump, and still stay upright........well, some of the time..........

(Just kidding)

 

[Shebeen]

11 minutes ago, Eugene said:

I'm not going to be popular with this answer. 

He is 10, don't over analyse his racing. Let him ride and he will learn and gain experience with time. 

 

 

agreed. I am keeping my bikebefok 9yr old away from the junior racing stuff as i want bikes to be only about fun for him till at least high school. He is super competitive and I don't think he'll gain anything from that environment. Maybe I have been put off by the talk of the Sworks crowd who get little johnny a new superbike each year. Remco only started racing when he was 17 or something and was still junior world champ!

 

but each parent to his own, if the kid wants to do it then go for it by all means. 

[DJuice]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

agreed. I am keeping my bikebefok 9yr old away from the junior racing stuff as i want bikes to be only about fun for him till at least high school. He is super competitive and I don't think he'll gain anything from that environment. Maybe I have been put off by the talk of the Sworks crowd who get little johnny a new superbike each year. Remco only started racing when he was 17 or something and was still junior world champ!

 

but each parent to his own, if the kid wants to do it then go for it by all means. 

@shebeen

My boys are 7 and 4, they have no interest in racing or being competitive. Their bikes is going to the shop today, we had rain in the desert, the bikes went for a swim.

They will wait for their mates to finish together or get loss on the way after seeing a stone or animal. It does pain their father more than anybody else...#killerwhale.

I do have a question regarding the training of young children.

Most of the articles state that children should just be children, play as many sports as possible, have fun rides...but then you get these children that is going to Olympics (swimming) at 16 years of age...and I`m thinking they must have been training heavy miles from age 8. 

In cycling Pogi is possible an example.

To my mind conflicting.

Your view?

 

[ChrisF]

14 minutes ago, DJuice said:

@shebeen

My boys are 7 and 4, they have no interest in racing or being competitive. Their bikes is going to the shop today, we had rain in the desert, the bikes went for a swim.

They will wait for their mates to finish together or get loss on the way after seeing a stone or animal. It does pain their father more than anybody else...#killerwhale.

I do have a question regarding the training of young children.

Most of the articles state that children should just be children, play as many sports as possible, have fun rides...but then you get these children that is going to Olympics (swimming) at 16 years of age...and I`m thinking they must have been training heavy miles from age 8. 

In cycling Pogi is possible an example.

To my mind conflicting.

Your view?

 

 

The feedback we got from one of the local coaches were along the following lines:

 

1. All ages can be taught skills

2. All ages can "race" .... and jumping off the bike, just after a blind corner, to scratch in the bush looking for a snake is very much part of riding with boys ....

3. Now here comes the tricky bit ... apparently up until some age their bodies are still growing and "extreme race training" can impact their growth ..... some research have been done along these lines.  Thus this coach does "race training" only with high school kids.

 

And yet, some parents do hill repeats and hard training with their primary school kids.  THESE are the kids that make it to Nationals. 

 

 

I take note of these approaches, but it is way too far out of my wheel house to comment on which is the correct approach.

 

[DJuice]

Thanks @ChrisF, Khamkirri trial is on the menu this weekend with the kids…and fishing…leave that to the wife.

[Shebeen]

48 minutes ago, DJuice said:

@shebeen

My boys are 7 and 4, they have no interest in racing or being competitive. Their bikes is going to the shop today, we had rain in the desert, the bikes went for a swim.

They will wait for their mates to finish together or get loss on the way after seeing a stone or animal. It does pain their father more than anybody else...#killerwhale.

I do have a question regarding the training of young children.

Most of the articles state that children should just be children, play as many sports as possible, have fun rides...but then you get these children that is going to Olympics (swimming) at 16 years of age...and I`m thinking they must have been training heavy miles from age 8. 

In cycling Pogi is possible an example.

To my mind conflicting.

Your view?

 

My view on elite sports requiring dedicated training from a young age? For every pogi/phelps/nadal superstar there are 99 other kids who dreamed of the same but spent their childhood drilled at practice putting in the same hours and never got there. Is it worth the 1% chance of professional success over the 99% chance of doing a sport so much that you don't enjoy it? ** Not in my books, I'd rather take the odds of picking something up later and then working on it. 

Competitive swimming(IMHO) is a dumb sport, it really is if you think about it. You dedicate a massive amount of your youth to building up to maybe just having a shot at the only thing that counts (olympics). Squad swimming kids are at the pool early 3 mornings a week from a young age. forget 10 000 hours, for swimming you need 30 000. It's a recipe for burnout and no way to grow up even if you do get there - the best possible outcome is you get really good is a kickass college degree(that you hardly studied at because your eyes were so burnt from all the chlorine).  Simple answer. reduce the amount of olympic medals for swimming, it's really not such a big sport in the scheme of things but is only held up because it is big at the olympics.

Moving on we now have the chinese sporting model, which is version 2.0 of the cold war academy. They throw money,coaches etc at promising kids in olympic medal sports. eg. Does china have a canoeing scene? no, not even a club or a race but they now have olympic medals in it because they have sent a battery of kids through a boarding school for 15 years doing it for the state.

another example Lily from china who won olympic sailing gold. her parents saw her 2 weeks a year from the age of 8 and had never seen her actually sailing. Actually a sad story, she doesn;t sail anymore is much happier being a broadcaster/commentator

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/sport/xu-lijia-china-sailing-olympics/

 

Instead I like the Norwegian model, let the kids play, if they show promise then work on it much later

https://www.aspeninstitute.org/blog-posts/how-norway-won-all-that-olympic-gold-again/

edit: added this from another link, 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/article-norways-radically-different-approach-to-sports-helped-it-climb-to-the/

Quote

Children are encouraged to play as many sports as possible, and costs are kept low for parents. Clubs aren’t allowed to keep league standings or even record game scores for children under 13, and there are no individual rankings, travelling teams or national championships for that age group. It’s all covered in Norway’s “Children’s Rights in Sport,” a 12-page document that says “children should receive a positive experience every time they participate in sport.”

 

 

** figures generalised obviously much closer to 0.000001%  and 99.9999999%

 

 

Edited March 4 by Shebeen

[DJuice]

20 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

My view on elite sports requiring dedicated training from a young age? For every pogi/phelps/nadal superstar there are 99 other kids who dreamed of the same but spent their childhood drilled at practice putting in the same hours and never got there. Is it worth the 1% chance of professional success over the 99% chance of doing a sport so much that you don't enjoy it? ** Not in my books, I'd rather take the odds of picking something up later and then working on it. 

Competitive swimming(IMHO) is a dumb sport, it really is if you think about it. You dedicate a massive amount of your youth to building up to maybe just having a shot at the only thing that counts (olympics). Squad swimming kids are at the pool early 3 mornings a week from a young age. forget 10 000 hours, for swimming you need 30 000. It's a recipe for burnout and no way to grow up even if you do get there - the best possible outcome is you get really good is a kickass college degree(that you hardly studied at because your eyes were so burnt from all the chlorine).  Simple answer. reduce the amount of olympic medals for swimming, it's really not such a big sport in the scheme of things but is only held up because it is big at the olympics.

Moving on we now have the chinese sporting model, which is version 2.0 of the cold war academy. They throw money,coaches etc at promising kids in olympic medal sports. eg. Does china have a canoeing scene? no, not even a club or a race but they now have olympic medals in it because they have sent a battery of kids through a boarding school for 15 years doing it for the state.

another example Lily from china who won olympic sailing gold. her parents saw her 2 weeks a year from the age of 8 and had never seen her actually sailing. Actually a sad story, she doesn;t sail anymore is much happier being a broadcaster/commentator

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/sport/xu-lijia-china-sailing-olympics/

 

Instead I like the Norwegian model, let the kids play, if they show promise then work on it much later

https://www.aspeninstitute.org/blog-posts/how-norway-won-all-that-olympic-gold-again/

edit: added this from another link, 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/article-norways-radically-different-approach-to-sports-helped-it-climb-to-the/

 

 

** figures generalised obviously much closer to 0.000001%  and 99.9999999%

 

 

Appreciate @Shebeen

My training back round is swimming...I hate swimming...even with young children in the house, I will get into the pool handful of times during the season.

 

 

[Dirk Stoffberg]

Many thanks to everyone that took the time to respond.

Completely agree that our kids should enjoy riding and have fun doing it (appreciate nature/riding together etc), however I would rather teach my kid proper riding techniques in the beginning as it will help make his riding more enjoyable with less falls etc and he will grow in confidence. The learning curve for a kid who doesn't know the correct  techniques is longer and less enjoyable imo, and he/she will have to unlearn any incorrect techniques.

Techniques/tips that I have taught my son so far:

* Shoulders back and chest out (helps breathing)

* Slightly bent elbows in attack position (gives better control of the handlebars)

* Correct foot position on the pedals (ball on pedal enables better power and weight transfer)

* Looking ahead and choosing the best line (gives more time to adjust and you go where you look)

* Deep breaths and hydration (oxygen and electrolytes enable energy transfer)

* Bike position, when to lean back or forward depending on gradient or obstacle, transferring of weight etc.

* Pedal positioning in corners, looking through corners etc

* Pace yourself (prevent over exertion and fatigue)

 

Most kiddies bikes are quite heavy and rough to ride, since he got his specialized rhyme fs bike he is more excited and keen to ride

Have I got this all wrong, should I rather not teach him correct riding techniques and just let him do his thing, when is the right time? 

All I am hearing is let your child be a kid???

I started surfing in my teenage years and some of my mates who started a whole lot earlier progressed sufficiently enough that when they where in there teens they already had coaches and represented at top level, and the awesome experience that comes with that... I wish I had that opportunity when I was young and to have had the early exposure and coaching, or maybe I am wrong?

 

Edited March 4 by Dirk Stoffberg
grammar

[amac]

35 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

My view on elite sports requiring dedicated training from a young age? For every pogi/phelps/nadal superstar there are 99 other kids who dreamed of the same but spent their childhood drilled at practice putting in the same hours and never got there. Is it worth the 1% chance of professional success over the 99% chance of doing a sport so much that you don't enjoy it? ** Not in my books, I'd rather take the odds of picking something up later and then working on it. 

Competitive swimming(IMHO) is a dumb sport, it really is if you think about it. You dedicate a massive amount of your youth to building up to maybe just having a shot at the only thing that counts (olympics). Squad swimming kids are at the pool early 3 mornings a week from a young age. forget 10 000 hours, for swimming you need 30 000. It's a recipe for burnout and no way to grow up even if you do get there - the best possible outcome is you get really good is a kickass college degree(that you hardly studied at because your eyes were so burnt from all the chlorine).  Simple answer. reduce the amount of olympic medals for swimming, it's really not such a big sport in the scheme of things but is only held up because it is big at the olympics.

Moving on we now have the chinese sporting model, which is version 2.0 of the cold war academy. They throw money,coaches etc at promising kids in olympic medal sports. eg. Does china have a canoeing scene? no, not even a club or a race but they now have olympic medals in it because they have sent a battery of kids through a boarding school for 15 years doing it for the state.

another example Lily from china who won olympic sailing gold. her parents saw her 2 weeks a year from the age of 8 and had never seen her actually sailing. Actually a sad story, she doesn;t sail anymore is much happier being a broadcaster/commentator

https://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/04/sport/xu-lijia-china-sailing-olympics/

 

Instead I like the Norwegian model, let the kids play, if they show promise then work on it much later

https://www.aspeninstitute.org/blog-posts/how-norway-won-all-that-olympic-gold-again/

edit: added this from another link, 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/article-norways-radically-different-approach-to-sports-helped-it-climb-to-the/

 

 

** figures generalised obviously much closer to 0.000001%  and 99.9999999%

 

 

I find this really interesting.

At what age do kids start dreaming of elite sporting success ? I suspect that at primary school level kids aren't dreaming about anything more than success at the next event they compete at. I think kids pretty much live in the moment.  I suspect that a lot of parents spoil childrens' sport. But there may well be kids that truly love swimming and being in a pool. Are they being " drilled" ?

 

I have noticed that with for example motorsport, success is linked to starting at a young age. ( Binder, Rossi, Verstappen, Pastrana, Carmichael, Stoner etc.)

 

I am sad that we no longer have inter provincial xco racing for nippers and sprogs. I was told that this was because the parents were overly competitive and this made the competition undesirable. I took my child to interprovincials. It was an opportunity to go away for a weekend, make friendships with people from other provinces and for the kids to play with peers at these events. Sometimes the races were disappointing because of crashes, mechanicals etc. But the race was a small part of the  weekend.  Overall it was really enjoyable. I can't think of any event that was not worthwhile.

 

I posted previously that a 10 year old is too young for training. I stand by that but it is important to ensure we all agree on what training is. I don't regard riding 45 minutes to an hour on a couple of weekdays and perhaps an hour and a half at the weekend as training. It's just fun time together. Training is when you  ''have" to ride. When riding includes intervals either on an indoor or outdoors uphill. Training is less fun. But is often still rewarding. (Seeing progress is motivating.)

 

With cycling it is also less fun because it is an individual sport. So is swimming, but that is usually a club activity and kids are in pools with numbers of other children. I think that is an important difference.

 

I don't know the answers to these interesting issues, but I think it unfortunate that adults form strong opinions and attempt to control what other people may enjoy. ( I have no idea what happens in china and I am not advocating for kids to be taken away to train for the glory of a country. ) But I do think it sad that kids are prevented from inter provincial xco racing, while provincial races and schools races are permitted to go ahead. If parents are the problem, they must be a problem at any level of competition, not just inter provincial. I think inter provincial is important because kids in smaller provinces do not get to glimpse elite athletes at their provincial events. It is inspiring for kids to meet the likes of the Hatherleys and Lills. But these elites only compete in the WC and perhaps to a lesser extent near Gauteng. 

[Jewbacca]

2 minutes ago, Dirk Stoffberg said:

Many thanks to everyone that took the time to respond.

Completely agree that our kids should enjoy riding and have fun doing it, however I would rather teach my kid proper riding techniques in the beginning as it will help make his riding more enjoyable with less falls etc and he will gain in confidence. The learning curve for a kid who doesnt know the correct  techniques is longer and less enjoyable imo, and he/she will have to unlearn any incorrect techniques.

Techniques/tips that I have taught and my son so far:

* Shoulders back and chest out (helps breathing)

* Slightly bent elbows in attack position (gives better control of the handlebars)

* Correct foot position on the pedals (ball on pedal enable better power transfer)

* Looking ahead and choosing the best line (gives more time to adjust and you go where you look)

* Deep breaths and hydration (oxygen and electrolytes enable energy transfer)

* Bike position, when to lean back or forward depending on gradient or obstacle, tranferring of weight etc.

* Pedal positioning in corners, looking through corners etc

* Pace yourself (prevent over exertion and fatigue)

 

Most kiddies bikes are quite heavy and rough to ride, since he got his specialized rhyme fs bike he is more excited and keen to ride

Have I got this all wrong, should I rather not teach him correct riding techniques and just let him do his thing, when is the right time? 

All I am hearing is let your child be a kid???

I started surfing in my teenage years and some of my mates who started a whole lot earlier progressed sufficiently enough that when they where in there teens they already had coaches and represented at top level and the experience that comes with that... I wish I had that opportunity when I was young and to have had the early exposure and coaching, or maybe I am wrong?

 

hahahaha You're bang on track if you're teaching skillz, a love and passion for riding and encouraging fun.

I think people are against teaching kids how to RACE with pressure and expectation. This usually involves some form of structured training, which compounds the pressure.

Skills are essential for fun, teach but don't be annoyed when they don't want to listen. 

Maybe the heading should be 'How do I keep my son interested in riding forever from a young age, as opposed to including a race element?

RE the surfing...... I surf a lot, it pains me when I see the groms annoyed out in the water when they aren't shredding hard enough or landing whirly airs. As a 40 something kook for life I get so stoked just being out in the water.

I'd guess that translated back into riding bikes. It should make you happy, especially as a kid  

[Dirk Stoffberg]

7 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

hahahaha You're bang on track if you're teaching skillz, a love and passion for riding and encouraging fun.

I think people are against teaching kids how to RACE with pressure and expectation. This usually involves some form of structured training, which compounds the pressure.

Skills are essential for fun, teach but don't be annoyed when they don't want to listen. 

Maybe the heading should be 'How do I keep my son interested in riding forever from a young age, as opposed to including a race element?

RE the surfing...... I surf a lot, it pains me when I see the groms annoyed out in the water when they aren't shredding hard enough or landing whirly airs. As a 40 something kook for life I get so stoked just being out in the water.

I'd guess that translated back into riding bikes. It should make you happy, especially as a kid  

Thanks Jewbacca, keep the stoke.

[Jbr]

it's CTCT week, so here are my two cents with this race as an example.

In general, this is how I approach positionning :

- if there is a risk of split (climb, crosswind, or it's just a flat out race), try to be close to the front, but not in the front (because you burn energy for no good reason)

- if there's no risk of split and/or the pace is chilled, then hang at the back, with lots of space to react in case of a crash

 

For CTCT for exemple, I try to be close to the front just before the descent of hospital bend, then slowly let myself drift to the back on Edinburg (it also smothes the effort on the climb, saving some matches for later) and the whole section towards muizenberg I'm usually quite far back, chilling, I'll only move back up as we're about to enter Muizenberg as it gets a little twisty there.

Of course for road racing, team tactics can dictate what you do, if you have a protected rider you'll possibly have to be in the front if the team decides to set the pace or to close some breakaway, but that doesn't apply to your kids racing.

 

In a XC race, which seems to be what your son did, the front is where you probably want to be, especially when there's some single track because you can lose a lot of time there.

It seems from your post that your son was where he was supposed to be, and it's just a case of bad luck, and this happens a lot in bike racing. There's only 1 winner every time and a lot of losers, part of the game 😅 Outside of competition and winning, being where you're supposed to be is also safer, and more fun (you probably don't want to be in the front if you're slower because then you're going to be overtaken left right center which can be scary and degerous, but also you don't want to be stuck behind slower riders as it can be frustrating)

Edited March 4 by Jbr

[DJR]

On 3/4/2024 at 1:22 PM, Jewbacca said:

hahahaha You're bang on track if you're teaching skillz, a love and passion for riding and encouraging fun.

I think people are against teaching kids how to RACE with pressure and expectation. This usually involves some form of structured training, which compounds the pressure.

Skills are essential for fun, teach but don't be annoyed when they don't want to listen. 

Maybe the heading should be 'How do I keep my son interested in riding forever from a young age, as opposed to including a race element?

RE the surfing...... I surf a lot, it pains me when I see the groms annoyed out in the water when they aren't shredding hard enough or landing whirly airs. As a 40 something kook for life I get so stoked just being out in the water.

I'd guess that translated back into riding bikes. It should make you happy, especially as a kid  

And on a side note, one of the very best places for kids to learn insane bike handling skills and overtaking is BMX.........just ask Jewbacca!