Clone brands… should we ban sellers?

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Barry said:

A few sellers have jumped on this TEMU  thing and just copy past the pics from TEMU to the Hub. One had some Sram goodies with same copy past pics. Difficult to say if genuine Sram but pics would suggest TEMU is the supply. 

We've removed one such sellers listings this morning thanks to a report and have reached out to SRAM for clarification. 

The packaging all looks quite legitimate, but here's a video that shares some insights. But the short of it is that it's tough to tell without having the product in hand.
 

 

[Matt]

To remind folks, our policy on counterfeits is quite straight forward:

5.8. Counterfeit or illegal products. You may not list any counterfeit or illegal products for sale. If we find that you posted any counterfeit or illegal goods, we will suspend or terminate your account.

https://help.bikehub.co.za/en/articles/4656778-terms-of-service

[Barry]

11 minutes ago, Matt said:

We've removed one such sellers listings this morning thanks to a report and have reached out to SRAM for clarification. 

The packaging all looks quite legitimate, but here's a video that shares some insights. But the short of it is that it's tough to tell without having the product in hand.
 

 

I do get 100% what Nick said earlier regarding the hanger tool and a reasonable person would probably not see it as a Park Tool. But change the name on something that looks same same with same features this must involve a copyright or patent and would be considered illegal. 

Sorry just trying to understand how this all works.

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Barry said:

I do get 100% what Nick said earlier regarding the hanger tool and a reasonable person would probably not see it as a Park Tool. But change the name on something that looks same same with same features this must involve a copyright or patent and would be considered illegal. 

Sorry just trying to understand how this all works.

As Nick pointed to, where it's not an outright fake (i.e. using the same name and logo) it becomes a slippery slope. He'd be more qualified to explain the legal nuances having been in IP law prior to committing to a life in the bike industry.

My understanding is that the design is far more difficult to protect vs the trademarks. So brand may fight and win in court on design grounds, then that thing would be illegal and fall foul of our policies.

But without a court ruling or direction from the brand, we apply reasonability as @Nick outlined. If a consumer may reasonably be fooled we’d not allow the listing.

[Danger Dassie]

26 minutes ago, Barry said:

I do get 100% what Nick said earlier regarding the hanger tool and a reasonable person would probably not see it as a Park Tool. But change the name on something that looks same same with same features this must involve a copyright or patent and would be considered illegal. 

Sorry just trying to understand how this all works.

Not upto BikeHub to determine though. Imho they’ve outlined a reasonable approach from their end. 

[Barry]

2 minutes ago, Matt said:

As Nick pointed to, where it's not an outright fake (i.e. using the same name and logo) it becomes a slippery slope. He'd be more qualified to explain the legal nuances having been in IP law prior to committing to a life in the bike industry.

My understanding is that the design is far more difficult to protect vs the trademarks. So brand may fight and win in court on design grounds, then that thing would be illegal and fall foul of our policies.

But without a court ruling or direction from the brand, we apply reasonability as @Nick outlined. If a consumer may reasonably be fooled we’d not allow the listing.

Totally understand and the administration involved in acquiring the relevant court judgements would not be a viable option.  How could you stop a multi tool from been made and sold when Park Tool have the patents this just not going to happen and not our problem. 

[Nick]

8 minutes ago, Barry said:

Totally understand and the administration involved in acquiring the relevant court judgements would not be a viable option.  How could you stop a multi tool from been made and sold when Park Tool have the patents this just not going to happen and not our problem. 

To further add to the complexity of these issues:

1. This patent has expired
2. It is for a multitool


3. I can't understand any of it