Sanctioned Individuals

[Barry]

The CSA does not govern everyday life and cannot prevent an individual from participating in cycling activities that are not sanctioned or regulated by the CSA or UCI; they would need a court order to enforce such a restriction.

[Shebeen]

31 minutes ago, 'Kaze Pete said:

One has been mentioned already. Given human nature, surely there must be more?
Ideally, there should not be people to be put on such a list!

But can you name more, I can't!

put 4/5 together that are publicly known, and it could make sense because there could be more - but until then it's a weird request. I guess we are all keen to know what prompted your query in the first place - did you find someone a bit dodgy and wanted to know more?

 

here's a corollary  - a conman in the running community

https://runningmann.co.za/2025/02/13/the-terrible-tale-of-tiaan-conradie-the-lying-dutchman/

Should ASA put a list together of fraudsters in the running sector? of course not.

['Kaze Pete]

Nothing/nobody specific. Just a general question w.r.t. people that are 'out of bounds' as there are so many who claim credibility and legitability, but how to check that?

Surely the lowest hurdle / bar would be a list of people / groups that CSA sanctioned / 'banned' due to whatever violation

Start to feel like I'm riding into an "Omerta" wall here. Get more excuses (cover ups?) than real answers

[Barry]

[DanMan]

52 minutes ago, Barry said:

The CSA does not govern everyday life and cannot prevent an individual from participating in cycling activities that are not sanctioned or regulated by the CSA or UCI; they would need a court order to enforce such a restriction.

You are right but when you take up UCI/CSA membership you agree that you will not participate in unsanctioned races and adhere to their rules. This includes all anti-Doping rules etc. Thus, they can sanction you for breaching the rules. 

[Barry]

On 5/16/2025 at 11:14 AM, DanMan said:

You are right but when you take up UCI/CSA membership you agree that you will not participate in unsanctioned races and adhere to their rules. This includes all anti-Doping rules etc. Thus, they can sanction you for breaching the rules. 

 

Edited May 18 by Barry
The post has been removed, as I may have been venting a bit too much.

[DanMan]

1 minute ago, Barry said:

You make it sounds like CSA has some sort of legal authority in this country, but the reality is quite the opposite. It is a money-hungry organization run by incompetent people. Who are they to dictate when and where I can cycle or if I can engage in a cycling-related business outside of their membership? I may register with them for the sake of a specific event, but as for the rest, they can shove it.

What I do know is the UCI is very strict and requires countries enforce the non-Sanctioned event rules for riders. They can deny federations membership which means we will not be able to send riders to World Championships etc. 

On paper we should only want to participate in sanctioned events as minimum safety standards, insurances and rules SHOULD be in place. Unsanctioned events are not regulated by anybody; they can cut corners if they want. It free for the rider to decide if they willing to take the risks.

I agree with you that you can chose what race you want to ride. But if you don't like the rules of a federation, province, club or race then don't join/enter them. If you break the rules, you agreed to uphold then you must face the consequences. 

[sias]

2 minutes ago, Barry said:

1. It is a money-hungry organization run by incompetent people.

2. Who are they to dictate when and where I can cycle or if I can engage in a cycling-related business outside of their membership?

3. I may register with them for the sake of a specific event, but as for the rest, they can shove it.

1. Bull s..t! There are only a small number of people that get a small salary and they are mostly admin staff. The rest of us don't get a single cent. We are all volunteers from various provinces and disciplines trying to keep the sport going. All of us were selected by our provinces and we are normal working people with families and other responsibilities to take care of. As far as competence goes, there may be more qualified and competent people out there, but none of them want to be in the structures, mostly because there is no money involved. I don't know if passion for the sport counts for anything? Probably not in your eyes.

2. We can dictate within CSA and UCI sanctioned events in as far as you have to be a CSA licensed rider to compete in National championships and UCI events. Outside of that you can do whatever you please. If, like a certain pedo, you bring the sport, CSA and the cycling industry into disrepute, we will have nothing to do with you and your business and we will make certain that the international bodies know about it as well.

3. We get told that a lot by a lot of people. You are welcome to phone me and tell me where to shove it on 0829257911 or e-mail me at siasleroux@gmail.com . I'll take the abuse and any and all suggestions you may have on doing it better.

I am the chairman of NorthWest Cycling and I sit on the CSA MTB Commission as well as the CSA Provincial Council. I will deliver your message.

Have a great weekend.

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, 'Kaze Pete said:

One has been mentioned already. Given human nature, surely there must be more?
Ideally, there should not be people to be put on such a list!

 

Surely, if CSA / UCI sanctions an individual/group (basically prevents them from having something to do with cycling), and CSA / UCI are able to impose penalties on groups / people registered with CSA/UCI, they should have a list of such individuals / groups available?

They will have a List but it is likely not public as it may not be compliant with the PoPi act

[DieselnDust]

55 minutes ago, DanMan said:

You are right but when you take up UCI/CSA membership you agree that you will not participate in unsanctioned races and adhere to their rules. This includes all anti-Doping rules etc. Thus, they can sanction you for breaching the rules. 

Yes , but that sanction doesn’t have to be public knowledge unless the sanctioned presents a danger to the public at large and there are legal processes that need to be followed.

 

let’s use an employment example;

if someone is pinged for sexual harassment in the workplace does the company make the suspension or dismissal of that individual public knowledge? They will keep a list of people they consider undesirable for employment but it would take a court order to make that list public and it would have to be in the public interest. 
the exception is the anti doping code, some USA states and Islamic countries where sanctioning can be made public.

[Barry]

24 minutes ago, sias said:

1. Bull s..t! There are only a small number of people that get a small salary and they are mostly admin staff. The rest of us don't get a single cent. We are all volunteers from various provinces and disciplines trying to keep the sport going. All of us were selected by our provinces and we are normal working people with families and other responsibilities to take care of. As far as competence goes, there may be more qualified and competent people out there, but none of them want to be in the structures, mostly because there is no money involved. I don't know if passion for the sport counts for anything? Probably not in your eyes.

2. We can dictate within CSA and UCI sanctioned events in as far as you have to be a CSA licensed rider to compete in National championships and UCI events. Outside of that you can do whatever you please. If, like a certain pedo, you bring the sport, CSA and the cycling industry into disrepute, we will have nothing to do with you and your business and we will make certain that the international bodies know about it as well.

3. We get told that a lot by a lot of people. You are welcome to phone me and tell me where to shove it on 0829257911 or e-mail me at siasleroux@gmail.com . I'll take the abuse and any and all suggestions you may have on doing it better.

I am the chairman of NorthWest Cycling and I sit on the CSA MTB Commission as well as the CSA Provincial Council. I will deliver your message.

Have a great weekend.

I am trying to hold my tongue, and yes, I do understand that even you, as the chair, have your challenges and your hands are tied to some degree. As for money and subscriptions, CSA has little to show for it. 

 

How much did CSA contribute to Juan Spies going to the Olympics, or did his GoFundMe cover the costs? How many serviceable tracks do we have in Hectanoris, Plidich, or Krugersdorp? Ha, ha, I suppose this is a municipal problem. When was the last time CSA covered any costs for a cyclist going to the championships? 

 

As I said, I understand that a few good individuals get recognition, but as an outsider looking in, it seems like a non-viable entity.

[sias]

10 minutes ago, Barry said:

I am trying to hold my tongue, and yes, I do understand that even you, as the chair, have your challenges and your hands are tied to some degree. As for money and subscriptions, CSA has little to show for it. 

 

How much did CSA contribute to Juan Spies going to the Olympics, or did his GoFundMe cover the costs? How many serviceable tracks do we have in Hectanoris, Plidich, or Krugersdorp? Ha, ha, I suppose this is a municipal problem. When was the last time CSA covered any costs for a cyclist going to the championships? 

 

As I said, I understand that a few good individuals get recognition, but as an outsider looking in, it seems like a non-viable entity.

I gather you are a trackie. You can contact Stephan Salzwedel directly. He is the SA Track director. His details are on cyclingsa.com . He will be able to guide you on your issues.

I do not know anything about Jean Spies, apart form what Google gave me. You can ask that to Stephen as well.

CSA contributed around R1.9m to athletes going to various international championships/olympics, and other projects in 2024. That is more than what was gathered through calendar fees, levies and license fees etc.

And just to make it clear, but I'm sure you are aware: CSA does not only consist of track cycling. Maybe you should become an insider, if you aren't/weren't already on the inside.

 

['Kaze Pete]

9 minutes ago, sias said:

<snip>

for a team owner / manager / rider, I understand the onus is on them not to associate with certain individuals who have been sanctioned by CSA / UCI (banned for a period of time, etc).

Is there a mechanism for the above hypothetical owner / manager / rider to (other than google), confirm that people they are dealing/might deal with / come across their paths are actually above board, and will not lead to them being embarrassed (at the least)

[sias]

6 minutes ago, 'Kaze Pete said:

Is there a mechanism for the above hypothetical owner / manager / rider to (other than google), confirm that people they are dealing/might deal with / come across their paths are actually above board, and will not lead to them being embarrassed (at the least)

Somi is the secretary general at CSA. She should be able to assist. These matters are handled by Exco and the legal side, to which I am not privy. 

I can try and find out and let you know.

Edited May 16 by sias

['Kaze Pete]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

Yes , but that sanction doesn’t have to be public knowledge unless the sanctioned presents a danger to the public at large and there are legal processes that need to be followed.

 

let’s use an employment example;

if someone is pinged for sexual harassment in the workplace does the company make the suspension or dismissal of that individual public knowledge? They will keep a list of people they consider undesirable for employment but it would take a court order to make that list public and it would have to be in the public interest. 
the exception is the anti doping code, some USA states and Islamic countries where sanctioning can be made public.

This statement makes no sense. A sporting body can share details of people using substances against a code they subscribe to (by choice, as they compete in a sport managed by said body, which upholds that code).

Given the example that was brought up on this thread, not share names of people who were found guilty of contravening the same codes (albeit by most a more serious one - causing harm to others. even minors)?

What is the difference?

 

[Barry]

54 minutes ago, 'Kaze Pete said:

This statement makes no sense. A sporting body can share details of people using substances against a code they subscribe to (by choice, as they compete in a sport managed by said body, which upholds that code).

Given the example that was brought up on this thread, not share names of people who were found guilty of contravening the same codes (albeit by most a more serious one - causing harm to others. even minors)?

What is the difference?

 

As stated by @sias contact CSA, they can confirm or deny your suspicion better than a public forum. Whether or not a list is published, CSA holds the information you seek, so contact them and make your judgment from there.

Edited May 16 by Barry