Lactate Threshold, FTP tests etc.

[The Ouzo]

Would love to do these tests, purely out of curiosity. 
having never measured my power, a few weeks back our LBS had a fun evening where they had a wahoo bike setup and a friendly contest to see who had the best 1 min w/kg, so I went for it. 
 

surprisingly my 1min power was pretty decent amongst us local riders, but would love to see what a proper ftp test will show because I was fading pretty quickly near the end of that 1 min. 

[Thomas Clark]

I did some testing at the start of my training for last year’s Cape Epic.

I am naturally interested in data points around training, and thought I understood my ‘training zones’ well.

The testing changed my perspective! My Heart Rate Zones were lower than I expected, and so was my Lactate Threshold. It was essential in reframing my training for the event.

I think it is one of the most important things I have done for myself, to try improve my cycling.

Tests done:

- VO2 Max with Lactate Threshold

I think cost was R2000.

Good luck!

[cadenceblur]

1 hour ago, Thomas Clark said:

I did some testing at the start of my training for last year’s Cape Epic.

I am naturally interested in data points around training, and thought I understood my ‘training zones’ well.

The testing changed my perspective! My Heart Rate Zones were lower than I expected, and so was my Lactate Threshold. It was essential in reframing my training for the event.

I think it is one of the most important things I have done for myself, to try improve my cycling.

Tests done:

- VO2 Max with Lactate Threshold

I think cost was R2000.

Good luck!

Thanks for this, I have reached out to them 

[DieselnDust]

15 hours ago, Thomas Clark said:

I did some testing at the start of my training for last year’s Cape Epic.

I am naturally interested in data points around training, and thought I understood my ‘training zones’ well.

The testing changed my perspective! My Heart Rate Zones were lower than I expected, and so was my Lactate Threshold. It was essential in reframing my training for the event.

I think it is one of the most important things I have done for myself, to try improve my cycling.

Tests done:

- VO2 Max with Lactate Threshold

I think cost was R2000.

Good luck!

yeah thats what a few of us have been saying. If you rely on a bike computers testing protocol you will likely be getting your metrics wrong. A lab based VO2 max test will recalibrate everything. Often your HR max is understated in your own testing (element of self preservation kicks in) vs a lab test where you are encouraged to push harder

[cadenceblur]

For those that train with a PM as well and therefore primarily use their power zones  , where does the VO2 number and LT threshold become relevant in application?
 

[peetwindhoek]

More data over time = better decisions. Your curiosity will probably make you enjoy the sufferfest 😄

Any good places in Gauteng to get it done?

[bleedToWin]

1 hour ago, cadenceblur said:

For those that train with a PM as well and therefore primarily use their power zones  , where does the VO2 number and LT threshold become relevant in application?

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

A lab based VO2 max test will recalibrate everything.

I'll wait for @DieselnDust to answer on VO2max, as he's left quite a few comments now and I also don't understand where the number would become relevant in training.

4 x 4min hard-starts has a power target range. The first rep is done mid range, if it feels good the next two are upper range, and if possible the last one sets a power PR and we acknowledge a break through. If you up the power for two reps then just manage in the last rep to repeat the power of the first rep then the session and power range was spot on. Not sure how things would change from knowing your lab tested VO2max number.

 

 

I'll answer for LT numbers that actually made me tweak my training after testing.

LT2 takes some of the noise out of threshold work where field testing with PM can have you muddy the waters with anaerobic contributions. For most people this number is a bit humbling and it lowers the ceiling of your power range for these workouts. It takes a long time for LT2 to feel hard and most folks want threshold workouts to feel hard and end up riding quite a bit above LT2.

LT1 calibrates your zone 2 work. 55% - 75% of a poorly tested poorly defined number that is itself a number meant to approximate something else is an attempt to give broad guidance and it's just too many layers of stacked errors to be specific to you.

[DieselnDust]

23 hours ago, cadenceblur said:

For those that train with a PM as well and therefore primarily use their power zones  , where does the VO2 number and LT threshold become relevant in application?
 

VO2max is not relevant in training but it is one of the metrics you are trying to improve.

If you use the Garmin calculated Vo2 max you start off with a figure that is generally understated and the any improvement is then also often understated which can lead to overtraining when chasing the improvements. It is always ideal to sense check the Vo2 it spits out against an actual test even if this is only once per year, possibly at the beginning of the season. Input your actual VO2 and that reduces the error from the training tracking algorithm in the bike computer.

The error is usually user induced because a formula like 15x(Hrmax / Hr resting) has two points of failure.

The Garmin algorithm uses additional data points like speed, and weight which could be off for whatever reason on a particular day.

It plays no role in the workouts execution but could influence how your structure or focus your training plan if it is identified as a limiter.

 

LT numbers would be the biggest benefit for sure and the more accurate these are the better your plan can be tailored to your specific needs. AFAIK < a lab test is still the gold standard for determining LT1 and LT2

Edited March 31 by DieselnDust

[cadenceblur]

33 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

VO2max is not relevant in training but it is one of the metrics you are trying to improve.

If you use the Garmin calculated Vo2 max you start off with a figure that is generally understated and the any improvement is then also often understanded which can lead to overtraining when chasing improvements. It is always ideal to sense check the Vo2 it spits out against an actual test even if this is only once per year, possibly at the beginning of the season. Input your actual VO2 and that reduces the error from the training tracking algorithm in the bike computer.

The error is usually user induced because a formula like 15x(Hrmax / Hr resting) has two points of failure.

The Garmin algorithm uses additional data points like speed, and weight which could be off for whatever reason on a particular day.

It plays no role in the workouts execution but could influence how your structure or focus your training plan if it is identified as a limiter.

 

LT numbers would be the biggest benefit for sure and the more accurate these are the better your plan can be tailored to your specific needs. AFAIK < a lab test is still the gold standard for determining LT1 and LT2

Thanks, your thoughts align with mine, 

I reckon there won't be much benefit from an FTP read perspective as tests are pretty accurate and easily repeated. 

Getting fitter often results in misalignment of HR zones vs power (at least in my experience) as one's efficiency improves.

[Mook]

Got to get this off my chest ......................

It would appear that STRAVA has failed dismally to provide the desired motivation to be your best self on the bike, hence the requirement for a dominatrix to whip up your VO max.

 

[DieselnDust]

Strava just tells everyone you rode your bike. Even the power numbers it shows everyone only tells a small part of the story and Strava power is like F12026. So when ones with FTP’s of 200 hide their power figures it’s like playing hide and seek with an invisible friend. No one’s impressed by those numbers, just that you rode and posted happy smiley pictures at the trending coffee spots

Edited March 31 by DieselnDust

[reteid]

i did bike and run tests on seperate days at Stellenbosch Fisiology lab basicly to determine hr training zones.I have followed the same testing protocol at home to find MY hr zones for both cycling and running.they were a bit cheaper than SSI and i am still using their formulas ie persentage of tests to determine my garmin hr training zones.

[reteid]

they tested vo2 max LT1 LT2 etc including some interesting other stuff eg percetage oxegen consumption per breath etc.i was interested in that as i am a smoker and wanted to see what the impact of that was but that is a different story for another forum.the short answer is they tested quite a bit more than the normal vo2 max lt1 lt2 things.i only train with a hr monitor so it is good for me to structure my training around those numbers.