Case Study: Ksyrium SL

[Johan Bornman]

Last week I was presented with a 3-year old Ksyrium wheel with a cracked rim. The owner wasn't too concerned about the cracked rim, after all, he has done a whopping 24 000kms on that rim. (Whoopee, I thought).

He wasn't concerned about the crazy price of a new rim either - go ahead and do it.

 

Second problem. Upon trying to undo the aluminium spokes, I discovered they've oxidised inside the nipples and are frozen solid between spoke and nipple. The rim is anodised so the nipples still turned freely there. But the problem was the spokes. Being aluminium, they don't resist torsion much better than an elastic band. Of course Mavic gives you a tool to hold the spoke but it still twists in the 50mm between the nipple and where the flat section starts.

 

Doing the wheel equivalent of a paramedic that performs CPR on a corpse for the sake of the onlooking relatives, I squirted Q-20 in the nipples and gave the wheel a good spin to force the smelly fluid into the cavity. Of course it didn't work. It never does, now does it?

 

Back to customer. "Bad news, most of your spokes will be ruined by the disassembly process."

 

No problem, just get new spokes. OK, so now I'm waiting for spokes. He didn't baulk at the price of spokes either, so no problem there.

 

I just think Mavic has designed and produced an inferior product. Those spokes should be steel and only steel. Those rims are poorly designed and the extrusion process is faulty. They need to watch the extrusion temperature a bit better. The rims cracked in spite of the reinforcement around the nipple.

 

However, as long as customers are prepared to pay for inferior products with zoot names, Mavic will produce inferior products with Zoot names.

 

 

The cracked rim. The crack started in the inside of the nipple boss and propagated outwards along the centre of the rim, following the faulty extrusion lines.

 

The photo below shows the twisted spoke. This spoke (and all 19 others) is ruined by disassembly and there is nothing the wheelbuilder can do to prevent it.

 

 

 

[Willehond]

Johan, it looks like this is a case of planned obscolescence don't you think?  It would fit with their business and I would buy shares in a company that makes profit by forced proprietary spares sales.

 

[bobby]

i had the same problem with a set that i had to rebuld for a client.......eish.

[Zaskar]

I had the same thing with a rear Ksyrium SL rim a few years back The rim opened up just like that, and i had to replace it. I didnt see it at first, but after a ride in the rain, i spun the wheel, and water was pouring out of all the holes. It only happened on the drive side spokes, which i suppose is where the most tension is. Actually im convinced that it happened after i rode the wheel on the indoor trainer. I had the wheels for about two years and they were fine, but then one or two sessions on the trainer, and a ride in the rain and i noticed the cracks. Do you think the trainer puts un-natural stress on the wheel?

[NotSoBigBen]

Zas, how much were you sweating dood ........... a fan should be used indoors don't you know!

[Johan Bornman]

Johan' date=' it looks like this is a case of planned obscolescence don't you think?  It would fit with their business and I would buy shares in a company that makes profit by forced proprietary spares sales.

 

[/quote']

 

You must be a businessman. I'm a repairman, I see it as unnoticed incompetence. Planned obscolescence - unnoticed incompetence....sounds similar to me.

 

Proprietary components...now you have my blood boiling.

[Jules]

Johan' date=' it looks like this is a case of planned obscolescence don't you think?? It would fit with their business and I would buy shares in a company that makes profit by forced proprietary spares sales.

 

?

[/quote']

 

?

 

You must be a businessman. I'm a repairman, I see it as unnoticed incompetence. Planned obscolescence - unnoticed incompetence....sounds similar to me.

 

?

 

Proprietary components...now you have my blood boiling.

 

 

 

It can be a good business model, but if you take the piss too much it'll work against you.

 

 

 

Certainly this isn't a good advert for Mavic.

 

 

 

Surely by the time this oke has paid for spares, labour, petrol, time etc, the repair job will not have been worth it? He could get a lovely new pair of Campy Zonda's in the Hub classifieds for the bargain price of R1600.

[dirtrider]

There are more than one way to look at this but it looks like these wheels are so well build that you never need to fiddle with the spokes !!! As for the little crack in the rim , weld it !

[Wannabe]

Johan, any suggestions in how we (the unfortunate ones in posession of these wheels) can prevent this kind of thing happening?

I'm quite worried now, as I think I will have to have my real wheel rebuild soon, as there is one spoke on the non drive side that is loose, but the nipple has been turned in all the way.  There is no noticable "buckle"in the wheel, but it is worrying to me.

[Johan Bornman]

 

Cut cut cut cut

 

 Do you think the trainer puts un-natural stress on the wheel?

 

No. How can he? He rides his bicycle and these wheels were designed for a bicycle. They're positioned to and sold to the cycling enthusiast where people are supposed to ride lots, get strong and dice each other from time to time.

 

*************

 

EDIT: Sorry, I misread "Trainer" for "trainee". The answer is still no. An indoor trainer places very little strain on a wheel. It only puts a little bit of weight on there which is the biggest load a wheel ever gets. All the other strains it puts on a wheel are negligible.

 

**************

 

Strangely enough, nothing we do on a bicycle increases overall spoke tension.

 

If you jump from a height and you land on the wheel, you only decrease the spoke tension in the landing zone. All other spokes remain at the same tension. Overall the tension reduces.

If you brake (calliper brakes) , all the spokes in the front half of the wheel lose some tension and all those at the back gain some. But just a little, not much. Overall the tension remains the same.

If you brake (disk brake), ever second spoke gains tension and every other one loses some tension. Overall the total tension remains the same.

If you pedal, every second spoke loses tension and every other spoke gains tension. overall the total tension remains.

And if you think you're a strong guy, have a look at the power meter training stats that Bruce posts from time to time: Torque on rear wheel: 6 NM. That's nothing? Divide that tension by the number of spokes and you end up with zilch.

 

I think the answer to any question posed about this case is "crap wheels."

 

 

Johan Bornman2008-09-09 07:14:18

[Willehond]

Johan' date=' it looks like this is a case of planned obscolescence don't you think?  It would fit with their business and I would buy shares in a company that makes profit by forced proprietary spares sales.

 

[/quote']

 

You must be a businessman. I'm a repairman, I see it as unnoticed incompetence. Planned obscolescence - unnoticed incompetence....sounds similar to me.

 

Proprietary components...now you have my blood boiling.

 

Johan, I said I would by shares in their company, not buy their products!!! 

 

They clearly design their products to lock customers in.  Sound business model, but not too nice for customers, but if they don't mind paying twice for the bling...

[Johan Bornman]

Johan' date=' any suggestions in how we (the unfortunate ones in posession of these wheels) can prevent this kind of thing happening?

I'm quite worried now, as I think I will have to have my real wheel rebuild soon, as there is one spoke on the non drive side that is loose, but the nipple has been turned in all the way.  There is no noticable "buckle"in the wheel, but it is worrying to me.

[/quote']

 

Yes, I have several suggestions, none of which you'll like:

 

1) Sell them to Grey Owl.

2) Fit them to the bike belonging to a granny that only uses her bike to go to church.

3) Build yourself a set of standard wheels using standard steel spokes.

4) Don't buy anything if you can't prononounce the name when drunk. - FSA, Ksyrium, Cervelo....I'll leave it to your imagination.

 

 

As for your wheel with the nipple issue as described. It is ruined. That aluminium has already yielded and the crack is imminent. Sell them now.

As a preventative measure to not have to replace the spokes as well, fiddle with your spokes every month. Turn them and turn them back to prevent the dreaded spoke freeze.

 

 

 

 

[Willehond]

Johan' date=' it looks like this is a case of planned obscolescence don't you think?  It would fit with their business and I would buy shares in a company that makes profit by forced proprietary spares sales.

 

[/quote']

 

You must be a businessman. I'm a repairman, I see it as unnoticed incompetence. Planned obscolescence - unnoticed incompetence....sounds similar to me.

 

Proprietary components...now you have my blood boiling.

It can be a good business model, but if you take the piss too much it'll work against you.

Certainly this isn't a good advert for Mavic.

Surely by the time this oke has paid for spares, labour, petrol, time etc, the repair job will not have been worth it? He could get a lovely new pair of Campy Zonda's in the Hub classifieds for the bargain price of R1600.

 

Basically, as jy dom is moet jy suffer.  mavic is a market leader and clearly exploiting the consumers.

 

I quote from the ever knowledgeable Wikipedia:

 

Planned obsolescence tends to work best when a producer has at least an oligopoly (market leader). Before introducing a planned obsolescence the producer has to know that the consumer is at least somewhat likely to buy a replacement from them. In these cases of planned obsolescence, there is an information asymmetry between the producer, who knows how long the product was designed to last, and the consumer, who does not. When a market becomes more competitive, product lifespans tend to increase.

...............

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

[Wannabe]

Johan, you just ruined my day.

Ah well, at least I did not pay too much for them, as they came with a used bike I bought for a very good price.

[Johan Bornman]

Johan' date=' I said I would by shares in their company, not buy their products!!! 

 

They clearly design their products to lock customers in.  Sound business model, but not too nice for customers, but if they don't mind paying twice for the bling...

[/quote']

 

 

I hear you. But I know the minute I buy shares, Jules' message gets out, people wake up and my shares bottom out. You're right about locking customers in. I spoke to my customer and said he should give up on the wheel. He said "No way, I have a front one that looks just like that."

 

I can just picture it now. R2500's repair cost today. By December he has forgotten the pain (if any). Then the front one starts giving problems. He thinks, aag, let me fix it, I have a back one that looks just like that. Another R2500 - katching! And so it goes and you become rich. Buy shares methinks.

 

PS - At the Hubbers ride on Saturday I wore a jersey with a viscious snarling dog picture. Several people thought I was you. Wanna buy a jersey?

[dirtrider]

Wildehond I am very surprised at your statemunts here !! This the way you do bussiness ?