MTB Etiquette

[Gravity Sux]

i used to give way to people coming uphill but i dont think it makes sense anymore' date=' and most people coming up the hill tend to give way anyway.

 

when i'm riding up the singles its more technical than coming down, so its no big deal to have to learn a new technique of being able to take off on an uphill.

 

most of this debate seems to be taking place around the tokai singles and they all have jeep track leading to the top of them so its not compulsory to ride up the singles, in fact, the ratio of people coming down to going up them is probably 10-1 or 20-1 (not speaking of the flatter one like fairy glen) so its more unusual for some1 coming down to meet some1, than the other way around, so people coming up should be more prepared to just pull off - its not going to effect the climbers speed that much and will enable him to gain extra skill (taking off on an uphill)

[/quote']

 

I was with those who believe downhill riders should yield until I read this. If there is jeep track going up then nobody should be riding up the single track even if it isn't marked - seems like common sense. You should just ride up the jeep track (not getting in anybody's way) and then enjoy the single track down (assuming everybody thinks yhe same way as you). Even when single track is marked one way there seem to be those who ride the wrong way so I  suppose you can't expect to meet someone riding up but I would not yield if they could just as easily have taken a jeep track up and not got in the way.

[ChrisH]

 

I was with those who believe downhill riders should yield until I read this. If there is jeep track going up then nobody should be riding up the single track even if it isn't marked - seems like common sense. You should just ride up the jeep track (not getting in anybody's way) and then enjoy the single track down (assuming everybody thinks yhe same way as you). Even when single track is marked one way there seem to be those who ride the wrong way so I  suppose you can't expect to meet someone riding up but I would not yield if they could just as easily have taken a jeep track up and not got in the way.

I must have missed the memo that said all single track must be riden only downhill, especially if there is a different up route available via jeeptrack.

 

Some of us ride up the Tokai singletrack because it is more of a challenge compared to riding up the jeeptrack. To be told we are in your way because you aren't prepared to improve your riding skills and fitness by doing the same is a bit much don't you think.

 

 

[downhilldemon]

i'm not a downhill rider (my username was just a joke considering my ability on singletrack last year, when i probably would have been told to get off it, no matter wich way i was going)

 

the one point i do want to make is that even at my gentle pace of going down the singletracks, i generally cant hear the people coming up them, and on tracks like "vasbyt" most likely wont see people coming up because of all the vegetation.

it only makes sense for the people coming up to yield as they will have a far earlier indication on someone coming than the guy on the downhill.

 

on other tracks up in the pine trees, riders can generally see each other a fair distance off and there is often a wider part where you can both go past each other, or the circumstance will generally dictate for who it will be easier to stop.

 

i cant say i've had any problems with people so far.

[Dirtbreath]

 

i'm not a downhill rider (my username was just a joke considering my ability on singletrack last year' date=' when i probably would have been told to get off it, no matter wich way i was going)

 

the one point i do want to make is that even at my gentle pace of going down the singletracks, i generally cant hear the people coming up them, and on tracks like "vasbyt" most likely wont see people coming up because of all the vegetation.

it only makes sense for the people coming up to yield as they will have a far earlier indication on someone coming than the guy on the downhill.

 

on other tracks up in the pine trees, riders can generally see each other a fair distance off and there is often a wider part where you can both go past each other, or the circumstance will generally dictate for who it will be easier to stop.

 

i cant say i've had any problems with people so far.

[/quote']

 

Unfortunately your idea of anticipation going up/down is not quite correct. Riding up a technical uphill your vision is fixed on a much closer point and you are really not craning your head up the hill and if you do its only in utter disguist at what you still have to climb.

 

A riding coming downhill has a faster pace and is viewing a much longer stretch of the trail and can anticipate an obstruction much sooner.

 

The uphill rider is also battling with momentum and it is really difficult to change a line when you see one little tightrope that is going to get you through this tricky little section. You are more likely to fall over by trying to alter your line as well. The downhill rider has the momentum and if unable to stop should it be necessary he can with less difficulty ride an alternative line to avoid a collision.

 

Unfortunately this is not a question of who is having more or less fun and who is spoiling it for whom, it is a sensible safety consideration just like wearing a helmet.

 

But then there is the matter of common sense too. If you see a guy coming downhill while you are going up and you can, try give him space to not spoil his fun. But if you guys are heading for a the downhiller must move out the way or avoid the uphiller.

 

On a side note this is in contrast to 4x4 etiquette where the downhiller has right of way. This has to do with the downhiller being unable to stop safely while he is using engine brake to negotiate an obstacle in low range. The uphiller can stall using gravity safely and easily resume his uphill movement.

 

[downhilldemon]

i cant agree with you dirtbreath about not being able to look up on the uphill. i go up and down those singletracks at least four days a week now and i can definitly tell when someone is coming down, but have been surprised a few times when coming down of people in the track.

 

its just the noise gets blocked out by wind and rattling when going downhill, and i've never been surprised with a person coming downhill when i'm going up, because i can hear all their rattling/ tire noise.

[GoLefty!!]

Riders heading up the single track will be going pretty slowly anyway.

 

If you're in the Faery Garden then it's pretty hard to hear riders coming from any direction due to the low trees.

 

In any situation it's always best and common courtesy to slow down when passing other riders whether they're going up or down.

 

as mentioned earlier, only on the DH course does the descending rider have right of way.

All other singletrack in Tokai is intended and designed to allow traffic in both directions.

 

Deal with it.

 

[Dirtbreath]

I honestly cant say I hear riders coming down. There are also many varieties of singletrack.

 

I have never ridden Tokai so I cant comment on the specifics. Up here in Gauteng and Mpumalanga the trails are quite rocky and if you are riding a technical uphill chances are there is only 1 line for you to get up. You are watching your wheel or a couple of metres ahead. You also wont hear much over the noise your tyres are making on these loose rocks on this tight line.

 

We can debate this topic untill the cows come home but the issue remains is that this trail rule has been accpeted by mountain bike organisations around the world. Its like driving on the left hand side of the road. On that note it still amazes me as to how many people still try go right when approaching traffic and almost cause collisions.

 

[Daft Vader]

I like to pin it, so I'm with Bust the Sickness on this one.  I always yield for the descender.  a sweet flowing singletrrack descent is the holey grail for MTBers.  Why would you want to spoil that for anyone.

[splat]

As for arrogance in the Cape' date=' I wish you guys stopped this exclusive mentality. You think you guys have everything and we have nothing up north of the Hex. Our level of arrogance kicks butt. We even have guys like BTS but they havent learnt to type yet. [/quote']

 

DT Where does this comment come from?

[ChrisH]

As for arrogance in the Cape' date=' I wish you guys stopped this exclusive mentality. You think you guys have everything and we have nothing up north of the Hex. Our level of arrogance kicks butt. We even have guys like BTS but they havent learnt to type yet. [/quote']

 

Hey! I'm proud of my humility.

[Dirt*girl™]

Dirtbreath?mmm, maybe you should go and see an otologist?.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

 

And what?s this about <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />western cape riders? I am always friendly out there?.and I think western cape riders are waaaay more friendlier in general too?.oh, and more passionate?.    

 

Stop being bitter over the fact that we don?t have to get in our cars and drive a couple of miles before we can hit the single track. I know it sucks, but hey ho..that?s life.

 

[nolipoli]

 

....

Anyway' date=' to cut a long story short, I'm still going to not yield when I'm descending, and I'm still NOT going to greet you unless I know you. In answer to the 'Let the bigger rider past and hope he hasnt had a bad day comment', the Neanderthal  one which you agreed to Jagwire, this is 2009. Need I say more?
[/quote']

 

BTS, The 'Neanderthal' comment to which you refer was quite clearly poking fun at the whole situation. I am sorry you were not in a position to appreciate the humour.

 

I like descending a whole lot more than I like climbing (16kg's of long travel). That still doesn't mean that I should get right of way over the poor racing snake on his carbon fibre climbing machine that is no good on the downhills.

 

Maybe we should blame the trail builders for not making the trails wide and straight, so we we can pass each other normally (sounds a lot like jeep track).

 

Common sense and courtesy people...

 

 

[Danger Dassie]

Gosh darn, you folk need to ride more. Theres enough testosterone here to fuel a lynching in a barn house.

As stated already, IMBA is clear it's the ascender that has right of way. This is a general trail rule adapted by trail users, the reasoning behind it is clearly defined and if one were considerate they'd take the time to appreciate the guidlines set by IMBA.

 

Obviously there are situations where it's difficult to apply and on crowded trails like Tokai it's most likely best to specify one way sections of singletrack for riders. Especially for our aggro 'stuff you attitude' from descenders and ascenders.

[TNT1]

Same rules apply in hiking:

Hikers going uphill are working hard and should be given the right of

way over hikers coming downhill. Sometimes uphill hikers will prefer to

stop and let you pass coming down so they can get a short break.

 

Also, general hiking etiquette dictates:

• Bikers yield to hikers and horses
• Hikers yield to Horses

The concept is that bikers are fast and can stop and go easily so they

let everything else have the right of way. Horses are big and

unpredictable so they get the right of way.

 

Because:

There's a saying: You'll never win a fight with an automobile.

The same general rule applies to any situation in which you find

yourself - the bigger object wins. On trails, a hiker is about the

smallest, slowest object so it is in your best interest to yield to any

other mode of transportation you encounter.

 

 

Of course I have never encountered a hiker even 1% as aggressive as some of the mtber's that post here...

 

[Bos]

Same rules apply in hiking:
Hikers going uphill are working hard and should be given the right of way over hikers coming downhill. Sometimes uphill hikers will prefer to stop and let you pass coming down so they can get a short break.

Also' date=' general hiking etiquette dictates:

Bikers yield to hikers and horses

Hikers yield to HorsesThe concept is that bikers are fast and can stop and go easily so they let everything else have the right of way. Horses are big and unpredictable so they get the right of way.
Because:
There's a saying: You'll never win a fight with an automobile. The same general rule applies to any situation in which you find yourself - the bigger object wins. On trails, a hiker is about the smallest, slowest object so it is in your best interest to yield to any other mode of transportation you encounter.

Of course I have never encountered a hiker even 1% as aggressive as some of the mtber's that post here...
[/quote']

 

TNT, I can with confidence say that I havent enen seen Aggressive behaviour like this on trails even by Bikers.

 

To be honnest, I think The rules like above makes perfect sense but In the same Breath I think  they could have been made by people that dont even actually ride bikes, or for extreme cases.  There would not even have to be rules or laws If people cared about fello men and not just their own little bubles.

 

Fortunately It seems that by far the most Riders out there do care a bit and Mabe as an effect of being outside getting rid of stress...

 

I have hardly ever had any difficulty passing riders up or down and Find that 95% of the time the passing is a positive experiance  more so than if it didnt happen at all. We are Relational Beings!! We like seeing others and passing by normally consists of a quick glance at bike, see If Its not perhaps a mate of mine and a "Howsit".. On back to riding..

 

This thing Is blown Way out of preportions by one or two fools whom is throwing their weight arounf to much and covering the rest of us in their sh*t.

 

Peace to you all.. I bet If youre on the trail this weekend You'll think of this thread and It will be nothing like this and you'll laugh at the whole debate.

 

Thats unless you happen to go heads up with some of the legalistic type or trolls.

 

Amen

[bustthesickness]

 

Gosh darn' date=' you folk need to ride more. Theres enough testosterone here to fuel a lynching in a barn house.

As stated already, IMBA is clear it's the ascender that has right of way. This is a general trail rule adapted by trail users, the reasoning behind it is clearly defined and if one were considerate they'd take the time to appreciate the guidlines set by IMBA.

[/quote']

 

I have been to the IMBA's website (http://www.imba.com) and nowhere can I find where it says that the descender must yield for the ascender. Furthermore, I fail to see how you can keep quoting and referring to a club which is not represented here in SA, and has no grounding rules which need to be adhered to. In reference to Tokai, NOWHERE does one sign a disclaimer or get a rule sheet for the area. If there is one, I've certainly never got one, and even the basic things are not enforced. Things like "No Helmet, No Ride" are hardly an issue here and if you guys keep carrying on about respecting your fellow man, then this should apply too. Why should I have to ruin my ride for the day by having to help out some concussed fool?

 

I have pasted the so called IMBA 'International' rules (from their website) below. I cannot see the descenders yield rule there at all.

 

Re?ls van die Roetepad

 

1. Ry slegs op duidelik aangewyse roetepaaie.

 

2. Laat slegs fietsspore agter.

 

3. Wees ten alle tye in beheer van jou fiets.

 

4. Gee toe aan ander roetepad gebruikers.

 

5. Moet nie enige diere versteur nie.

 

6. Beplan vooruit-Toerusting/Vaardigheid/Roete/Tyd.

 

Rules of the Trail

 

1. Ride on open trails only.

 

2. Leave no trace.

 

3. Control your bicycle.

 

4. Always yield trail.

 

5. Never spook animals.

 

6. Plan ahead.

 

I'm not contesting that common courtesy and respect for others should be paramount. As often is the case, between the two converging riders a decision gets made based on what seems to be easiest for both parties, however I cannot see why a descender has to move. Anyways, this will go around in circles until the end of time.