Johan Bornman Posted August 3, 2007 Share No No Willehond. Give Pablo some slack here. He's debating in his second or perhaps even third language and lots is lost in translation. His point is right if you give him lattitude for the language problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcarrasco Posted August 3, 2007 Share ...I can understand the logic behind the hypothesis - but I'd like to see some proper peer reviewed publications that support the hypothesis (on a greater than n=1 subject pool). Unfortunately my knowledge of biomechanics is weak' date=' and muscle physiology is even weaker. Can you guys provide links to the research behind the Q-rings?[/quote'] The test Ivan linked is the first test for a real publication we are waiting for. It is n=8. And the results are so possitive (in fact too much even for my understanding) that the Doctor preferred to call it "preliminary" and not to apply statistics. Later it was carried out a secondary test with the same cycling team, this time using EGM. We are waiting for publication so late because this Doctor was one of the Liberty Seguros W?rth Team, and the doping scandal was the end of the team and big head ache for all the doctors. We hope sooner or later to have this complete study published, but of course, more research will be needed... For example real racing data instead lab. Meanwhile, 20 years old Marianne Vos, Biomechanics student, will go on colecting tittles (I hope so) on Q-Rings. Now she is No. 1 in the world ranking and World Champion and European Champion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted August 3, 2007 Share Pablo writes: We hope sooner or later to have this complete study published, but of course, more research will be needed... For example real racing data instead lab. Johan: Please stick to the lab. Racing data cannot improve on a controlled environment.Pablo: Meanwhile, 20 years old Marianne Vos, Biomechanics student, will go on colecting tittles (I hope so) on Q-Rings. Now she is No. 1 in the world ranking and World Champion and European Champion...Johan: Marianne will win on Biopace rings, round rings, black rings and purple rings. Just because an athlete uses Nike, it doesn't mean he or she had the advantage because of the shoes. Lets not confuse sponsorship with science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 3, 2007 Share Johan can I give you a set to try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Bornman Posted August 3, 2007 Share Tim writes:Ithink the guilty party in this case is Mr Bornman who called the rise and fall of the bicyce chain an elastic system.. Johan: Tim, don't put words in my mouth to advance your crusade. If you look at my quote, I said "unlike an elastic system...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid Posted August 3, 2007 Share I heard that Chrissie and Cassandra are not using their q rings any more, I rode with Cassandra at the Jock classic and noticed she has taken hers off. Maybe I should take mine off as I have knee pain know as well, will take it off for this weekends race and make my final decision. will let you know on monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 3, 2007 Share I heard that Chrissie and Cassandra are not using their q rings any more' date=' I rode with Cassandra at the Jock classic and noticed she has taken hers off. Maybe I should take mine off as I have knee pain know as well, will take it off for this weekends race and make my final decision. will let you know on monday.[/quote'] If you have knee pain that is unusual. Let me know what the problem is. It should be reduced no doubt. You must check your set up and foot position first before any radical changes. Cashandra not riding them is 'political - commercial' issue which I will not get into here. She has new TT bike etc. Chrissie has stopped riding I spoke to her yesterday,. thats a shame becuase she was riding so well. Her contract was up and she has decided to concentrate on her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcarrasco Posted August 3, 2007 Share Johan, Marianne won CX Worlds 06 on Q-Rings and started the season for road in a new Team (DSB) who obligated her to mount round rings. After several tests and races she made the team reconsider this point and converted the whole Team in a Q equiped Team. After winning the road world championship in Salzburg, you don't know how expensive was for her Team and herself the option to refuse Shimano sponsoring (for 2007) due to the zero possibility for using Q's (if she has Shimano material). Then SRAM tried to make a contract in the same way, and failed, so decided to allow the whole Team using Q-Rings. Little by little, Sram allowed the same for their other teams except the ProTour Saunier Duval... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted August 3, 2007 Share Tim writes:Ithink the guilty party in this case is Mr Bornman who called the rise and fall of the bicyce chain an elastic system.. Johan: Tim' date=' don't put words in my mouth to advance your crusade. If you look at my quote, I said "unlike an elastic system...."[/quote'] ohhhh touchy aren't we...crusade what crusade, I think you're seeing things where there is none too see..I can recommend some medication for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudsimus Posted August 3, 2007 Share Tim writes:Ithink the guilty party in this case is Mr Bornman who called the rise and fall of the bicyce chain an elastic system.. Johan: Tim' date=' don't put words in my mouth to advance your crusade. If you look at my quote, I said "unlike an elastic system...."[/quote'] You really need to utilise the qoute function.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcarrasco Posted August 3, 2007 Share Something more efficient need less input for the same output. Now please, forget Physics for a little bit. Because it is not how much glycogen you consume for the same sprint, it is if you win or not the sprint. This is efficiency for the sprinter. Then, which is the input for this sprinter... answer: all he can put in the bike for that agony minute is Ok. This is the efficiency we are looking for... mainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk555 Posted August 3, 2007 Share Tim writes:think the guilty party in this case is Mr Bornman who called the rise and fall of the bicyce chain an elastic system.. Johan:Tim' date=' don't put words in my mouth to advance your crusade. If you look at my quote, I said "unlike an elastic system...."[/quote'] You really need to utilise the qoute function.. He cant, clicking on something is to simple for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcarrasco Posted August 3, 2007 Share Johan: Please stick to the lab. Racing data cannot improve on a controlled environment.For oval chainrings, lab is not good enough, due to the different inertias involved. I suppose the extraordinarily positive results of that test has much to do with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willehond Posted August 3, 2007 Share Something more efficient need less input for the same output.Now please' date=' forget Physics for a little bit. Because it is not how much glycogen you consume for the same sprint, it is if you win or not the sprint. This is efficiency for the sprinter.Then, which is the input for this sprinter... answer: all he can put in the bike for that agony minute is Ok.This is the efficiency we are looking for... mainly.[/quote'] I am so, soooo tempted to say so many things about the "forget physics for a lttle bit" statement, but seeing that physics has been soiled and misquoted so much in this discussion I'll give poor science a break! Let's just say pcarrasco has been brilliant at redefining the meaning of efficiency and punting the virtues of his wares. A true focused marketing man.What I take out of this discussion is that some riders will perceive an improved pedaling 'efficiency' due to the higher gearing effect or due the fact that they paid lots of money for it. Have fun on your oval rings, if it works for you, I am happy for you. I am off to save some money to spend on getting my bike lighter and stiffer, so I can get all the power I put on the pedals efficiently transfered to the road to go faster ... mainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanb Posted August 3, 2007 Share mmmm willehond is lighter and stiffer better? You want lighter and stiffer look at the Agilis cranks and the N1 stem www.rotorbike.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willehond Posted August 3, 2007 Share Ivanb, you don't stop do you?! Anyway, for me the glowing anecdotal references from people like GoLefty, WorcesterWheeler and FanieFiets is way more convincing than any of the attempts to convince us of the improved power output (which I just don't buy). I am really looking forward to getting power stat feedback from the Hub guys (and time improvements hopefully!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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