maxxis, stan's ammonia sealant and the evil bubble

[mokganjetsi]

well, finally managed to track down a thread on the issue here....... unbeknownst to me i fitted maxxis ignitor LUSTs with a stans conversion kit to my mtb about 4 weeks ago. managing to get a small sidewall cut on my-almost-as-new rear tyre this weekend was only overshadowed by the horror of finding my bike with a flat front tyre and a deflated bubble looking like melted skin flopping on the sidewall this morning. 2 tyres gone in as many days.

 

now here is what i consider poor form:

stan's not placing a warning on their sealant that this may occur.

maxxis not doing the same.

the bike store where i bought and fitted the kit not issuing a warning / recommend a sealant that's not ammonia based

 

well, school fees paid i guess

 

**UPDATE 9 Nov**

well well well - on a day like this i'm so thankful nobody has my real name......<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

after wasting yet another tyre this weekend due to the dreaded bubble, i realised i must have been misinformed as to the cause of it (by a far more experienced bike technician in my defense). i discovered that mounting my bike on my thule tow-bar-fitted bike rack causes the front wheel to hang directly in line with the exhaust outlet....... and with exhaust gasses being very hot - the blistered tyre results. talk about school fees!

 

anyways, feeling like a poepol for accusing stan's and maxxis in this misfurtune

 

btw, if i mount my bike with the rear tyre on the exhaust side, the shape of the frame causes the rear tyre to be above and out-of-line with the exhaust and hence no problems.

mokganjetsi2009-11-09 02:21:37

[Mudsimus]

Thats why I dont use stans. It happend to 2 sets of tyres I had. Bontragers and Maxxis. I now use normal sealant in my tubeless.

[Dirtbreath]

The jury is still out whether it is an ammonia problem or just an excuse. Phone the guys at Maxxis and chat to them.

 

They were going to put warnings on their new tyres. Those there yet?

 

[mokganjetsi]

anybody knows who the maxxis agents in South Africa are? i bought the tyres at CRC so cannot return to the store.....

 

no warning on the tyre btw, but it is probably old stock (bought it on sale). i know some manufacturers now clearly state that the warranties become void when you use certain sealants - kenda for one.

mokganjetsi2009-11-03 02:53:06

[MTB Kid]

Delamination is caused by poor quality control during the tyre manufacturing process. This has been proven ... the difference is that when a tyre delaminates with a tube, it is not as noticeable. When a tyre delaminates being run tubeless, it goes flat.

There is less than 1% ammonia content in Stans Sealant and during the filtering process, it evaporates to the point that Stan does not have to even mention it on the packaging.

 

MTN/Energade is sponsored by No Tubes .... they run MAXXIS exclusively.

[Dirty Twin]

Thats wierd I have been riding for three years and only once had a tyre delaminate(crossmark) and had the other brand of sealant in my tyre. So don't think Stan's is the problem here.

[Cycho]

that explains my mystery bubbles as well...thought i rode over some funny rocks or something.

[Fleming]

I bought a Maxxis tyre a few months back from CRC and there was a sticker on the packaging clearly stating that the use of Ammonia based sealants will void the warranty. Havent had hassles with it though.

[splat]

There was a run of bad Maxxis tyres here in SA a while ago and most of them were replaced (minus cost of wear on tyre).

 

Kenda puts this on their packaging:

ATTENTION KENDA VALUED CUSTOMERS
KENDA DOES NOT ENDORSE THE USE OF ANY FLUID BASED SEALANT PRODUCTS IN KENDA TUBE TYPE OR TUBELESS TYPE TIRES. USE OF ANY FLUID BASED PRODUCT IN KENDA TIRES WILL BE AT YOUR OWN RISK AND WILL VOID ANY WARRANTY CLAIMS.

THANK YOU!
Kenda Management

splat2009-11-03 03:27:18

[Bike Mob]

What kind of powder do you run in Kenda's Then?

 

I had 2 crossmarks do that ages ago - they were replaced - since then been using stans in absolutely everything without issues.

 

[wonduhboy]

I also had a problem with Crossmarks - took it to my LBS (didn't buy from there though) and they replaced it straight away.

Contact Probike, I'm sure they distribute them

[mountain_lion]

Been using Stan's in Crossmarks on my bike and in Kenda Karmas on mrs mountain_lion's bike for more than a year without any issues.

 

Perhaps I just did not get the bad batch or am just lucky.

 

[mokganjetsi]

it does seem like its a random event that can occur almost at any time - i'm kinda peeved that happened to get the 4-week draw.....

what's concerning though is that it seems to happen quite a lot, i.e. you are LIKELY to end-up with a bubbleblowout if you take more than a year or two to finish off a tyre & you use the sealants in question

i will give a ammonia-free sealant a go next round. tubeless simply rocks and i do not want to revert back to tubes (and snakebites yikes!)

[GoLefty!!]

a random event that can occur at almost any time....

 

 

 

who would have thought

[mokganjetsi]

random in that it can happen to any tyre (not specific to only one brand or year of manufacture) or at any time (a 4-week or 2-year old tyre)

 

i thinked.... uh have thoughted.....uhhhh..... thought?

[Johan Bornman]

If you look at the Kenda warning that Splat posted, you'll see that Kenda doesn't warn against ammonia-based sealants, but against all liquid sealants. I'm not sure what the alternative to liquid sealants is.

 

However, I'm convinced the Ammonia has nothing to do with the problem. Besides, the stuff is not Ammonia-based, but Latex-based, using Ammonia as a rot preventer. Latex is tree sap and rots quite easily. Rot runs away when it smells a bit of ammonia. So do I.

 

Anyway, my money is on poor bonding in the laminate. If two layers aren't well bonded and you get a puncture, the liquid goes in there, aided by air pressure inside the tyre, and delaminates a rotten patch around the puncture area. The liquid kinda wanders off in the interior of the tyre, cause the bubble.

 

It happens to car tyres as well - they also delaminate. They make a very specific sound: slap slap slap slap, as they drive past.

 

Speaking of all this:

 

1) Why are rim strips so expensive?

2) Why do tubeless valves cost more than R200 a pair when you can get 20 car tubeless valves for the same price?

3) Why is Stan's and Joe's filament tape so expensive? The stuff cost R50 for one wheel from a bike shop and R20 for a 100 wheels from a hardware shop.

4) What type of porridge is in OKO? Is it oats or mealie meel.