ASG Posted January 2, 2011 Posted January 2, 2011 With the post above I wanted to say that Dogma with R50k price tag vs upper R30k's for competitors distorts the view people have of the Dogma. It is NOT much more expensive than other bikes it competes with...Only in SA Thanks for these comments (and for Gerhard's original comment). I post this reply hesitantly because we certainly don't want to start a debate that we cannot finish (and where I cannot possibly list all the factors that play a role) but I certainly want to respond to the comment that ‘South Africa (ASG) is the most expensive in the world’. We take these comments very seriously and take note! For the record - it is our (ASG's) ongoing mission to get pricing on all our brands (AND SOLD THROUGH OUR DEALERS - Bike Stores) down to levels that compete with ‘legitimate’ and ‘reasonable’ online pricing and we will continue to do so (but it is not always as easy or as simple as you may think). We are continuously negotiating better deals with our suppliers and by buying in bulk get effective costs down. As the exchange rate improves and we buy new stock at better rates this certainly helps. On many of our Rudy Project eyewear models (example new SWIFT with photochromic clear lenses- R1290, SIDI shoe models (including new SDS range) - R1290, Pinarello FP2 Carbon with Shimano 105 - R25k inclusive, etc.) we think the RRP is even less than what you can find anywhere online (when comparing 'apples with apples'). To achieve this objective without selling directly or online (and cutting out dealer margin) is something we are really proud off. There are however some reasons (or considerations) why a comparison like the one Gerhard did, does not tell the full story – not criticism, he simply listed some pricing that anyone can find online by typing in ‘Pinarello DOGMA price’ using GOOGLE (and I say this knowing that each client has the right to buy items where and how they want): Our pricing is set on a 6-monthly basis based on purchase cost and ruling exchange rates at the time (we are required to keep adequate stock which means we sometimes lose out on positive exchange rate swings after purchases were made (this was the case in the last 12 months and especially last 2 months) - obviously the reverse is also true which may result in SA being classified as 'cheaper' than the rest of the world 12 months from now?. The upside is that we keep adequate stock (at our risk) on all our brands and can supply most models/sizes/colours immediately (waiting period from Italy is now 3-4 months on a DOGMA!). From our feedback it would seems that most of our stores in SA sell DOGMA frame kits for approx R42k to R45k (it is however true that RRP for a DOGMA frame is R50k incl VAT based on prescribed RRP rates from Italy – some international distributors ignore this and sell directly via online stores). Considering shipping, VAT, duties (complete bikes only), holidays in Italy , I think we are not too far off and you should see another adjustment in the new year if the Rand holds its current strong levels against the EURO. Keep in mind that 12 months ago the same online prices quoted may have sounded expensive at more than R10 to the EURO (R8.90 at the moment). We also have ongoing promotions to try and offer these bikes (through our dealers!) at better value than you can find online - check out some of the 'best of Italy' package deals currently on offer by ASG (advertised extensively in most SA cycling magazines). You may be surprised... I think our clients got some great deals through their bike stores! We are committed to keep selling through our dealers and not direct to the public - this is a decision we made some time ago because we believe it is critical to provide solid service, backup, warranty support, etc through our selected dealer base for the Pinarello brand (something we cannot do from our head office and that no ‘online’ trader located overseas can do). The downside of this decision is that you will always find some guys selling products online from overseas at really small margins because they don’t keep stock and then create the impression that everyone else is expensive. It is easy for them considering they have no upfront stock investment, no insurance, stock holding, storage, advertising and marketing costs, sponsorship costs, etc etc) and order as required (when they get orders online). In the end, anyone is free to buy whatever they want and wherever they want – consumers today are much more informed (especially when buying Pinarello bikes J) - we understand this and are working hard to get all your business by offering competitive prices, warranty support, stock availability, good service, etc. In the end price is a key consideration - our business has grown beyond our wildest dreams in the last 4 years and we would like to think that offering good value and service to our client base was key in achieving these results.
Sarge Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Hi all,Great pics and fair comments all round. The only thing that would worry me about owning one (not that I could afford one ) is to leave it outside the local coffee shop after a ride without an armed guard.RegardsSarge
Tankman Posted January 4, 2011 Author Posted January 4, 2011 Pinarello will be the first company in the world to fit the DOGMA with new Campagnola electronic. We just received some more info on that - new Spanish pro team 'MOVISTAR' will be first to use it - we have just ordered the first replica frames for delivery March / April...we'll post more info soon for those that are interested. Love the decals of the Bora's! Also love the name of the team - MOVISTAR - with these bikes they will certainly feel like movie stars
onetrackmind Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Hi all,Great pics and fair comments all round. The only thing that would worry me about owning one (not that I could afford one ) is to leave it outside the local coffee shop after a ride without an armed guard.RegardsSargeYou might not get as far as the coffee shop: NOTJUSTINAFRICA
Christie Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 1. A big thank you for participating in the discussion, ASG.2. Strength of the rand is bad for export business, but at least bikes will be cheaper.3. I don't like the movistar colour scheme. The old Caisse de'Espagne colours much nicer imo.
bontie Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 ag - I think the mere fact that your business and product has had the airtime it has had in the last day or two is evidence that your recipe works. One can only congratulate you on what you have achieved with the brands entrusted to you... I posted the prices of the bikes in response to an earlier post saying something to the tune of - all the Dogma has going for it is marketing and an expensive price tag. I am still a huge Pinarello fan, and will probably ride a Pinarello until I cannot walk or ride a bike, whichever comes first. My intention was never to create the perception that you are expensive or ripping customers off, but the perception is out there that a Dogma is expensive compared to its peers, which is not the case. You said so yourself, as most bikes are sold for R42-45k. What the public sees is a RRP of R50k. This is probably not far off the R45k for a Cervelo, R38k for a Trek Madone, R45k for a look 695... Cheers and well done. May I quote Juliaaas and say I was quoted out of context? :D
ASG Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 1. A big thank you for participating in the discussion, ASG.2. Strength of the rand is bad for export business, but at least bikes will be cheaper.3. I don't like the movistar colour scheme. The old Caisse de'Espagne colours much nicer imo. Thank Christie! On your comments: 1. Appreciate it - always a tough one to post something or not - especially on the hub as it seems if you are a distributor half the hub communiy hate you by default and turn anything you say into an attack on guys selling online 2. Agreed! Rates are really good (big positive move in last 6 months or so!) and we are planning to run a great 'New Years' promotion on Pinarello DOGMA frames in the next 2 weeks - watch this space!!3. Personally I am with you on that although we've had some really good feedback on the new colour schemes as well...I guess everyone is different ag
ASG Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 ag - I think the mere fact that your business and product has had the airtime it has had in the last day or two is evidence that your recipe works. One can only congratulate you on what you have achieved with the brands entrusted to you... I posted the prices of the bikes in response to an earlier post saying something to the tune of - all the Dogma has going for it is marketing and an expensive price tag. I am still a huge Pinarello fan, and will probably ride a Pinarello until I cannot walk or ride a bike, whichever comes first. My intention was never to create the perception that you are expensive or ripping customers off, but the perception is out there that a Dogma is expensive compared to its peers, which is not the case. You said so yourself, as most bikes are sold for R42-45k. What the public sees is a RRP of R50k. This is probably not far off the R45k for a Cervelo, R38k for a Trek Madone, R45k for a look 695... Cheers and well done. May I quote Juliaaas and say I was quoted out of context? :D Really appreciate the the time you took to add these comments - thanks! As mentioned in my original post - nothing personal and we know (and would love) to get the pricing down to a level where we can sell double the volume we are doing at the moment (we would be stupid not to???) - the current low exchange rates are certainly helping and we will be launching a great promotion soon on DOGMA frames to pass this on to consumers. In adition I think our complete bike packages are already very well priced. We realise a lot of distributors have messed up in the past and the 'price fixing' thing did not help (which for the record, we were not part of in any way, shape or form) but it is ironic that, with public support, solid disitributors are in a position to provide stock to clients through bike stores at really solid prices (we think even better than online guys generally) - the key is volumes - when you start buying in bulk you can get prices down - being part of the ASG group has helped us do that. We like the current supplier landscape mix challenge (online, LBS, CWC, CRC, etc.) - we think it keeps everybody honest but we will do everything in our power to make sure our supply channels are at least considered or part of the equation (and people are comparing 'apples with apples') when consumers are looking for Rudy, SIDI, Pinarello, etc. (our brands). We need to meet certain price and service expectations to do that and will continue to work hard to achieve this objective - we are not going anywhere! By the way just got some feedback from the Team Medscheme guys that started using their new DOGMA bikes during December - Check out Malcolm Lange's Twitter feed. Regards ag Ps. we miss you on those early morning rides in Pretoria!!
bontie Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Ps. we miss you on those early morning rides in Pretoria!! Hehe! I will have to lie if I said I don't miss you too Sprinting from 25km/h is probably not the same as off Renshaw's wheel is it? Are you guys in Treviso for La Pinarello - I am considering it, and I will need to call up a favour as I may need a push up a hill or 2? Happy new year. Back to the thread - which said Dogma porn (It was all about the bike when it started) Christie;s and my favourite colour scheme...
Christie Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Like the red and black colour best, without the glitter paint (I'm not the gold chain type). I must confess, though, that I would realy like to have a Dogma magnesium - its a modern classic, I think of it in similar terms as the Colnago Master Olympic. I wonder if HannB still wants to sell his...
javadude Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Like the red and black colour best, without the glitter paint (I'm not the gold chain type). I must confess, though, that I would realy like to have a Dogma magnesium - its a modern classic, I think of it in similar terms as the Colnago Master Olympic. I wonder if HannB still wants to sell his... I'm with you there on both fronts. Pity they don't make the magnesium any more.
bontie Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Like the red and black colour best, without the glitter paint (I'm not the gold chain type). I must confess, though, that I would realy like to have a Dogma magnesium - its a modern classic, I think of it in similar terms as the Colnago Master Olympic. I wonder if HannB still wants to sell his...HanB's bike has gone a long time ago...
ASG Posted January 6, 2011 Posted January 6, 2011 Definitely going for the La Pinarello - taking a group of about 20 guys with - can't wait and hope to see you there!! You'll be doing the pushing (as usual) by the way
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