Formula 1...

[Patchelicious]

2 minutes ago, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

Completely different as the cars manufacturers do not make tyres. Tyre's are the consumable here, should be made to an acceptable standard

Nothing drives performance standards like competition. 

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

2 minutes ago, Patchelicious said:

Nothing drives performance standards like competition. 

I agree but you have to have some constants. Al the great race series at the moment (MotoGP, WSBK, MotoAmerica, Australian supercars) all have standard tyres. It makes for better racing and drives competition, and development. When Ducati in MotoGP were caught out they had to develop the bike to suit. Now they have a killer bike, for example.

[Patchelicious]

20 minutes ago, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

It makes for better racing and drives competition, and development.

Couldn’t the same be said for single manufacturers series too? Some of the bests racing comes from that.

[Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, Patchelicious said:

Couldn’t the same be said for single manufacturers series too? Some of the bests racing comes from that.

That's what makes F1 so unique. They have to design most of the car themselves

Edited June 23, 2021 by Baldrick

[Patchelicious]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

That's what makes F1 so unique. They have to design most of the car themselves

Well exactly. They have to do this to beat the other teams who are doing the same. But Pirelli doesn’t. 

[bertusras]

Financially it makes more sense to have a single tyre supplier. Pirelli supplies around 24,000 tyres a season. If you're Michelin looking to join, who's going to take you up initially? Two teams, maybe? Now you must put in the same amount of R&D as Pirelli, to potentially secure 10% of the field. If your tyres work, great, more teams will come over. But now those teams need to redevelop their cars to suit the characteristics of the new tyres, which means more costs for the teams. Now you have a critical mass, and Pirelli says well, this doesn't work and is just costing money, so they pull out. Now you're left with Michelin only. The rest of the field needs to redevelop their cars to make it work. And you end up at what again? A single tyre supplier.

[Patchelicious]

1 minute ago, bertusras said:

Financially it makes more sense to have a single tyre supplier. Pirelli supplies around 24,000 tyres a season. If you're Michelin looking to join, who's going to take you up initially? Two teams, maybe? Now you must put in the same amount of R&D as Pirelli, to potentially secure 10% of the field. If your tyres work, great, more teams will come over. But now those teams need to redevelop their cars to suit the characteristics of the new tyres, which means more costs for the teams. Now you have a critical mass, and Pirelli says well, this doesn't work and is just costing money, so they pull out. Now you're left with Michelin only. The rest of the field needs to redevelop their cars to make it work. And you end up at what again? A single tyre supplier.

Yes lots of this makes sense. But let them choose. Right now no other tyre manufacturers have the choice.

[bertusras]

1 minute ago, Patchelicious said:

Yes lots of this makes sense. But let them choose. Right now no other tyre manufacturers have the choice.

Well that's why there are negotiations about the supply of tyres every couple of years, with the contract currently set to expire in 2024. Michelin elected not to submit a bit when the contract was up for grabs in 2018.

[Patchelicious]

1 minute ago, bertusras said:

Well that's why there are negotiations about the supply of tyres every couple of years, with the contract currently set to expire in 2024. Michelin elected not to submit a bit when the contract was up for grabs in 2018.

I also wouldn’t waste my time submitting a bid when you know you won’t get it. There is a difference between allowing for submissions for an exclusive contract and allowing for others to participate in a competitive event environment. If it’s allowed, and they still choose not too, well then that’s fair. 

[bertusras]

3 minutes ago, Patchelicious said:

I also wouldn’t waste my time submitting a bid when you know you won’t get it. There is a difference between allowing for submissions for an exclusive contract and allowing for others to participate in a competitive event environment. If it’s allowed, and they still choose not too, well then that’s fair. 

Nah mate

Quote

“We have received the technical specifications on which the FIA call for tenders has been issued and we have studied it carefully,” said the company.

“Michelin's recommendations for a switch to 18-inch tyres, as in Formula E, have been taken up by the authorities, which we are delighted about.

“However, the demand for the supply of 13-inch tyres for the 2020 season alone, as well as the deterioration of performance as a part of the show, goes against our principles of efficient resource management and respect for the technology of a sustainable tyre.

"Michelin has therefore decided to refrain from any response to this invitation to tender and will continue to follow, in conjunction with its governing bodies, the developments of Formula 1 in the coming years."

 

[Patchelicious]

11 minutes ago, bertusras said:

Nah mate

 

Much can be read into and debated about that, but it’s irrelevant to my position that multiple tyre manufacturers should be allowed, bruv.  

Edited June 23, 2021 by Patchelicious

[Steven Knoetze (sk27)]

1 hour ago, bertusras said:

Financially it makes more sense to have a single tyre supplier. Pirelli supplies around 24,000 tyres a season. If you're Michelin looking to join, who's going to take you up initially? Two teams, maybe? Now you must put in the same amount of R&D as Pirelli, to potentially secure 10% of the field. If your tyres work, great, more teams will come over. But now those teams need to redevelop their cars to suit the characteristics of the new tyres, which means more costs for the teams. Now you have a critical mass, and Pirelli says well, this doesn't work and is just costing money, so they pull out. Now you're left with Michelin only. The rest of the field needs to redevelop their cars to make it work. And you end up at what again? A single tyre supplier.

Jip, and then you start getting special tyres for certain teams while other teams "on the same tyres" suffer.

It is a slippery slope.

TBF, F1's problem is not tyres, its the rules. Hoping the 2022 changes fix most of them but lets see......

[Patchelicious]

5 minutes ago, Steven Knoetze (sk27) said:

its the rules

Ding ding ding 

[Baldrick]

Imagine each tyre manufacturer bringing their version of 3 compounds to a GP. 

[Eddy Gordo]

1 hour ago, Patchelicious said:

Yes lots of this makes sense. But let them choose. Right now no other tyre manufacturers have the choice.

for the very least, they should not be dictating what compounds to be used over a weekend. The driver should decide which compounds he wants to use for that weekend. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Eddy Gordo

[bertusras]

Just now, Eddy Gordo said:

for the very least, they should not be dictating what compounds to be used over a weekend. The driver should decide which compounds he wants to use for that weekend. 

Again, Pirelli needs to produce more than a thousand tyres for each race weekend (excluding wets). They need to know how many of what to produce. To expand it from 3 options to 5 options just seems silly. The drivers get to select how many of the soft, medium and hard designation they want for the race weekend on their allocation of thirteen sets. Okay so due to COVID supply chain issues it's not the case for 2020 and 2021. 

However, what do you think would have happened if drivers were able to select the softest C5 available at Monaco as the soft option for Silverstone?