Riding up the DOWNhills at Tokai

[leet22]

Sorry mate, I don't agree. There are ST sections that are bidirectional (faerie, Your Rocks, Mamba, Boomslang, Lizard, Boulders) but the rest are DH only, and should be treated as such. Therefore, if I come barrelling down the top of Vasbyt, and you're going up it, I'm just going to carry on. You'd better get outta my way, otherwise 120kg of bike and beast are gonna break you in two at the collission. And I'll get up, dust myself off and carry on riding.

I ride up vasbyt but just to the top part by the steps, but always give way to guys coming down.

But i agree that the Black tracks should not be ridden up.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yeah, Leet - that's cool. As long as ppl realise that if they don't get out the way, chances are we're NOT going to be able to stop in time, and therefore pain will ensue. I've also, however, seen peeps ride the WHOLE of vasbyt in the up direction (circumventing the steps via the chicken run) including the first berm and the region below! NOT COOL! If a guy comes barrelling out of the end of the DH section up above Vasbyt, and drops straight in (not unlikely, if he's stringing together a full run) and then there's a tjop in the middle of the berm?

 

 

One might, at that point, scream "catastrophe!"

[Slowbee]

Agreed, down has right of way no question, but the trails can be ridden both ways, just guys coming up should get off the trail if someone is coming down. Also, what happened to common sense and using our brains, it's easier for guys coming up, as they are going slower, to see if someone is coming down as opposed to visa versa, so surely that speaks for itself. I also agree, the roadie mentality should stay with the roadies...

 

 

this is where things turn ugly. Its actually easier for the guy going down the hill to get going again.

 

Usually when I am going uphill the only thing on my mind is not falling of my bike as my heart rate is usually somewhere past red and I can just manage to keep the bike moving. So why should I move ?

 

This has been debated for ages. The best solution, is actually to stop assuming that both riders have right of way, recognise that both riders can use the path make way for each other and then carry on riding. A little bit of decency goes a long way.

 

The only time things should be unpleasant, is, as has been suggested, when there is lots of signage. From reading the posts most paths on Tokai dont have signs.

[Capricorn]

actually slowbee: it's even easier than that. this whole thing is spiralling away from the actual point being made.

 

This.Is.A.Downhill.Track.

It's only 600m out of over 30km of XC friendly track, and only other 29.6km of track, all this deflection about right of way and arguments for arrogant stupidity applies. But Why The Face then my lycra-clad cousins?

 

it's really that damn simple.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Jarek Wysocki

[onetrackmind]

actually slowbee: it's even easier than that. this whole thing is spiralling away from the actual point being made.

 

This.Is.A.Downhill.Track.

It's only 600m out of over 30km of XC friendly track, and only other 29.6km of track, all this deflection about right of way and arguments for arrogant stupidity applies. But Why The Face then my lycra-clad cousins?

 

it's really that damn simple.

 

 

There is no signage indicating direction of travel, anywhere, I don't think. Until such time as there is, I don't think anybody has the right to presume they are entitled to endanger other users by using their 110kg bulk, or over-engineered forks, to bully them off the trail. It is a multi-purpose venue. I said it earlier - if you want to race downhill, go to a downhill race. If you want to ride in Tokai, you need to fit in with other users' needs. Until such time as there is different signage, that is just the way it is.

 

I would say it is really that damned simple, but I am not an angry youf wif a long travel bike.

[grb285]

this is where things turn ugly. Its actually easier for the guy going down the hill to get going again.

 

Usually when I am going uphill the only thing on my mind is not falling of my bike as my heart rate is usually somewhere past red and I can just manage to keep the bike moving. So why should I move ?

 

This has been debated for ages. The best solution, is actually to stop assuming that both riders have right of way, recognise that both riders can use the path make way for each other and then carry on riding. A little bit of decency goes a long way.

 

The only time things should be unpleasant, is, as has been suggested, when there is lots of signage. From reading the posts most paths on Tokai dont have signs.

 

 

There is no signage indicating direction of travel, anywhere, I don't think. Until such time as there is, I don't think anybody has the right to presume they are entitled to endanger other users by using their 110kg bulk, or over-engineered forks, to bully them off the trail. It is a multi-purpose venue. I said it earlier - if you want to race downhill, go to a downhill race. If you want to ride in Tokai, you need to fit in with other users' needs. Until such time as there is different signage, that is just the way it is.

 

I would say it is really that damned simple, but I am not an angry youf wif a long travel bike.

 

Seems like a couple of you guys have got chips on your shoulders over DH riders. What's the beef?

 

I think the solution here is simple. At the next trailbuilding session we'll have to look at NO ENTRY signs. (I assume you attend these, and do your bit to contribute "onetrackmind"?)

 

I thought this would be easy, see what guys feel, make them aware of the dangers and we move on. As with everything in life, there's always a couple of chops who think they're entitled to it all. The DH's are purpose built runs. There are competition events on these runs. Guys spend a LOT of time building and maintaing them. Go look into the physics of trailbuilding. A unidirectional trail takes into account just that.

 

By the way, I don't think my forks are over engineered at all. Maybe for you they'd be. For me, they suit my riding just fine.

[Brian Fantana]

There is no signage indicating direction of travel, anywhere, I don't think. Until such time as there is, I don't think anybody has the right to presume they are entitled to endanger other users by using their 110kg bulk, or over-engineered forks, to bully them off the trail. It is a multi-purpose venue. I said it earlier - if you want to race downhill, go to a downhill race. If you want to ride in Tokai, you need to fit in with other users' needs. Until such time as there is different signage, that is just the way it is.

 

I would say it is really that damned simple, but I am not an angry youf wif a long travel bike.

 

As said earlier, the directions of the route is indicated on the map at entrance. Hell I have never been to Tokai and even I understand this.

 

There are thousands of places to train for XC and marathons but only a few DH specific courses.

 

Besides if you did not help to build that section of the trail you have no reason to argue with people who did. They built it so they can do their favourite sport.

 

If you want a technical uphill, organise with Tokai and build your own.

 

People are always quick to complain about trails, signage etc but on trail building days it is only the same crowd that pitch everytime.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

There is no signage indicating direction of travel, anywhere, I don't think. Until such time as there is, I don't think anybody has the right to presume they are entitled to endanger other users by using their 110kg bulk, or over-engineered forks, to bully them off the trail. It is a multi-purpose venue. I said it earlier - if you want to race downhill, go to a downhill race. If you want to ride in Tokai, you need to fit in with other users' needs. Until such time as there is different signage, that is just the way it is.

 

I would say it is really that damned simple, but I am not an angry youf wif a long travel bike.

 

OTM, you are missing the point. DH 1, DH 2, DH 3, DH 4 & the top of Vasbyt are DOWNHILL TRACKS. As such, they are considered DOWNHILL ONLY. At no point in time should someone be riding UP these tracks. If they do, and get clouted whilst riding up these DESIGNATED DH tracks, they would be at fault.

 

Whilst I agree that there should be more signage, Ignorance is not an adequate excuse. Nor will it ever be.

[leet22]

OTM, you are missing the point. DH 1, DH 2, DH 3, DH 4 & the top of Vasbyt are DOWNHILL TRACKS. As such, they are considered DOWNHILL ONLY. At no point in time should someone be riding UP these tracks. If they do, and get clouted whilst riding up these DESIGNATED DH tracks, they would be at fault.

 

Whilst I agree that there should be more signage, Ignorance is not an adequate excuse. Nor will it ever be.

But surely when u see that its not really ridable up something should click in ur mind and say maybe we going the wrong way????

[Flippa]

I have been watching this thread with interest and I would like to chip in. I would like to note that I have no vested interest in this argument as I am a rigid singlespeed rider with a beard and have never ridden Tokai (but would like to)

 

Rule 4 of the IMBA (International Mountain Bicycling Association) states the following:

 

Yield Appropriately: Do your utmost to let your fellow trail users know you're coming — a friendly greeting or bell ring are good methods. Try to anticipate other trail users as you ride around corners. Bicyclists should yield to other non-motorized trail users, unless the trail is clearly signed for bike-only travel. Bicyclists traveling downhill should yield to ones headed uphill, unless the trail is clearly signed for one-way or downhill-only traffic. In general, strive to make each pass a safe and courteous one.

 

Therefore, if the trail is clearly marked as a downhill, single direction trail and you are going the wrong way, don't get offended if you end up tangled with an irate, full face helmet wearing maniac on a 23kg machine.

At all other times, riders travelling downhill should yield to those travelling uphill.

 

This argument would go away if the trails were clearly marked. Can somebody clarify if these trails are clearly marked? Even if it is just a coloured board corresponding with the map posted earlier and a no entry sign at the exit point of the trail?

[onetrackmind]

But surely when u see that its not really ridable up something should click in ur mind and say maybe we going the wrong way????

Absolutely.

 

And, therefore, to use your logic, if it IS rideable up, I have every 'right' to do so.

 

I knew you guys would understand eventually.

 

[leet22]

I have been watching this thread with interest and I would like to chip in. I would like to note that I have no vested interest in this argument as I am a rigid singlespeed rider with a beard and have never ridden Tokai (but would like to)

 

Rule 4 of the IMBA (International Mountain Bicycling Association) states the following:

 

Yield Appropriately: Do your utmost to let your fellow trail users know you're coming — a friendly greeting or bell ring are good methods. Try to anticipate other trail users as you ride around corners. Bicyclists should yield to other non-motorized trail users, unless the trail is clearly signed for bike-only travel. Bicyclists traveling downhill should yield to ones headed uphill, unless the trail is clearly signed for one-way or downhill-only traffic. In general, strive to make each pass a safe and courteous one.

 

Therefore, if the trail is clearly marked as a downhill, single direction trail and you are going the wrong way, don't get offended if you end up tangled with an irate, full face helmet wearing maniac on a 23kg machine.

At all other times, riders travelling downhill should yield to those travelling uphill.

 

This argument would go away if the trails were clearly marked. Can somebody clarify if these trails are clearly marked? Even if it is just a coloured board corresponding with the map posted earlier and a no entry sign at the exit point of the trail?

The trails are all marked at the start of them, name and type eg DH1 and a black diamond. But there are on no entry signs on the exit.

[leet22]

Absolutely.

 

And, therefore, to use your logic, if it IS rideable up, I have every 'right' to do so.

 

I knew you guys would understand eventually.

 

OTM the problem is the guys are trying to ride up trails that are not ridable up. DH1 etc they see a piece of ST and try ride up it.

[Guest Omega Man]

Absolutely.

 

And, therefore, to use your logic, if it IS rideable up, I have every 'right' to do so.

 

I knew you guys would understand eventually.

 

 

The trail entrance IS marked.It IS a downhill trail. You have almost 30km of trail to ride on that mountain but you insist on riding UP a downhill.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Omega Man

[Spat]

Hi

 

I took some pics of the boards when I went the first time, looked at them now, they so say some parts are downhill , there are no arrows or anything like that, maybe that is what is causing some of the confusion in terms of markings.

 

see the pics I took

Edited May 24, 2011 by Spat

[Guest Omega Man]

BTW. There are plans for a trail exit for the dudes that ride up that trail. basically it will branch off the trail at about the 3rd jump and exit on the road on the corner where that pile of trees is. (I hope that description works for you guys)

 

There is a trail there already but it's not really rideable in an upward direction. When that gets done the DH only trail will effectively end at the 3rd jump on Vasbyt.

 

No doubt when the trail maintenance day happens to make that happen onetrackmind and all his mates will be elsewhere and the guys doing the digging will the the usual crop of downhillers.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Omega Man