Riding up the DOWNhills at Tokai

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

True, but then OTM is up norff.

[Guest Omega Man]

Hi

 

I took some pics of the boards when I went the first time, looked at them now, they so say some parts are downhill , there are no arrows or anything like that, maybe that is what is causing some of the confusion in terms of markings.

 

see the pics I took

 

There's no confusion. The dicks who ride up the downhill know it's a downhill. They've been riding Tokai for years. They think they own the place for that very reason. It's not beginners that ride up there. They ride up the road. It's obvious to anyone with the tiniest element of a brain that it's a downhill and I'll tell you why.

 

1. It's been a downhill for YEARS

2. The trail is steep

3. It's got a fat berm in it clearly designed for max speed in a DOWNWARD direction.

4. THE TRAIL ENTRANCE IS CLEARLY MARKED AND IT SAYS DOWNHILL.

5. Downhillers ride down it and have been doing so for years.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Omega Man

[Capricorn]

for someone so intent on going uphill, onetrackmind is pretty damn good at taking logic downhill into the toilet... what a joker. either that or he cant read. DOWNHILL. maybe too many words. confuses him.

 

topic thrashed to death. GRB285: as i mentioned in the PM, lemme know if u need assistance. Dont count on the chop to actually fix the trails he buggers up.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Well said, Omega Man...

[Guest Omega Man]

for someone so intent on going uphill, onetrackmind is pretty damn good at taking logic downhill into the toilet... what a joker. either that or he cant read. DOWNHILL. maybe too many words. confuses him.

 

topic thrashed to death. GRB285: as i mentioned in the PM, lemme know if u need assistance. Dont count on the chop to actually fix the trails he buggers up.

 

The reason he is so disparaging towards downhillers is that in his heart he knows he doesn't have the onions to even think about let alone attempt the stuff most dh guys do and the most daring thing he's done in the last 5 years is drink Merlot instead of his usual Shiraz.

[splat]

So much aggression!

So much stereo typing.

So little common sense and manners and courtesy.

 

We are all mountain bikers. Why so much fighting?

 

This has become an angry 'us vs them' thing.

Worse than roadies vs mountain bikers

Worse than motorists vs cyclists

Worse than Shimano vs Campy/Sram

 

I don't see a happy solution for either side with these attitudes.

[Caerus]

Amazing that after 6 pages of this thread, some people still dont get the concept of a downhill run. If it says DOWNHILL it means just that, not Downhil(sometimes uphill)

 

Im sure the folks at Giba would get just as pissed if everyone tried to ride or push their bikes up the Downhill run

Edited May 24, 2011 by Caerus

[Guest Omega Man]

 

I don't see a happy solution for either side with these attitudes.

 

It's not about aggression and stereotyping. It's about a flagrant disregard for the rules put in place to protect everyone who uses the trails at Tokai.

 

It's a matter of time before a MASSIVE head on happens because people simply ignore the rules put in place to protect THEM.

 

And WHEN it happens there will be 2 possible outcomes.

 

1. All mountain biking will be stopped at Tokai.

2. Downhill will be stopped and that will be bad cos as far as i can tell from my attendance at various trail maintenance days the only people that do any trail maintenance are downhillers.

 

And another thing. We have 600m of trail on that mountain. 600. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that when we drop in for a run on the DOWNHILL trail it's clear of xc riders.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Omega Man

[splat]

It's not about aggression and stereotyping. It's about a flagrant disregard for the rules put in place to protect everyone who uses the trails at Tokai.

 

It's a matter of time before a MASSIVE head on happens because people simply ignore the rules put in place to protect THEM.

 

And WHEN it happens there will be 2 possible outcomes.

 

1. All mountain biking will be stopped at Tokai.

2. Downhill will be stopped and that will be bad cos as far as i can tell from my attendance at various trail maintenance days the only people that do any trail maintenance are downhillers.

 

And another thing. We have 600m of trail on that mountain. 600. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that when we drop in for a run the DOWNHILL trail is clear or xc riders.

 

I dont really want to wade in on the argument, but I am not sure where the rules for Tokai are posted. Specifically for direction on the trails. Other mtb parks in SA have directional routes and clear signage at both ends of the trail.

 

I do agree that there is going to be a huge crash, if there hasn't already been one.

[Guest Omega Man]

I dont really want to wade in on the argument, but I am not sure where the rules for Tokai are posted. Specifically for direction on the trails. Other mtb parks in SA have directional routes and clear signage at both ends of the trail.

 

I do agree that there is going to be a huge crash, if there hasn't already been one.

 

The trail entrances are marked.

[KDEE]

I dont really want to wade in on the argument, but I am not sure where the rules for Tokai are posted. Specifically for direction on the trails. Other mtb parks in SA have directional routes and clear signage at both ends of the trail.

 

I do agree that there is going to be a huge crash, if there hasn't already been one.

 

 

In this case it is clear that the 600m of downhill is meant and granted only for one way downhill..... but yet it doesnt really matter who is right and who is wrong when someone gets a serious injury, going up or down...

 

If BOTH ends of the trail are not marked.... there will always be someone exploring, be it for a perceived shortcut or whatever.... No entry signs in words, not colours or codes, is what is needed at the exits... Its not rocket science...

[onetrackmind]

There's no confusion. The dicks who ride up the downhill know it's a downhill. They've been riding Tokai for years. They think they own the place for that very reason. It's not beginners that ride up there. They ride up the road. It's obvious to anyone with the tiniest element of a brain that it's a downhill and I'll tell you why.

 

1. It's been a downhill for YEARS

2. The trail is steep

3. It's got a fat berm in it clearly designed for max speed in a DOWNWARD direction.

4. THE TRAIL ENTRANCE IS CLEARLY MARKED AND IT SAYS DOWNHILL.

5. Downhillers ride down it and have been doing so for years.

 

They've been riding Tokai for years. They think they own the place for that very reason.

 

Downhillers ride down it and have been doing so for years.

 

Nice job.

 

Now.

 

Firstly, I stand corrected, but there is no sign at the top of the berm designating it a downhill. Just the name of the section - Vasbyt - and a red squiggly worm, indicating it is 'Difficult Singletrack.There are numerous other sections with this red annotation, which are not being claimed as downhillers' personal fiefdom. How is a anybody meant to guess?

 

The DH routes further up are called DH, or similar, on their entry signage. If all this stink is about somebody riding up the berm, you guys really need to learn to share the trail a little.

 

It has also been an uphill for years. It has been ridden up since the trail first was developed. For as long as people have ridden down it, they have ridden up it. You get my drift?

 

The trail is steep. Quite right. That is what makes it a challenge to get up. FFS, pensioners can ride up it, I have ridden with people who get up it on a singlespeed, no stops, no dabs. Possibly a deposit of breakfast shortly thereafter, but completely rideable. It is NOT a downhill course, just an XC section with a berm and one set of roots (that are jumpable on a hardtail, go and search for Epic Bike Shop's videos of Lance and Karl Platt doing just that. Wearing lycra).

 

Bitching about only 600m of track, in 30-something kilometres of available track? You don't ride any of the other trails? How many downhillers use Tokai? On a weekend where 600+people pay to enter Tokai(busy weekends are probably more like a thousand), how any are 'downhillers'? 10? 20? I think I am being generous at 20, so let's say 30. MI.NOR.ITY. So, just do what the rest of the people do, enjoy Tokai for recreation and stress release. I promise you will still have fun. The proper DH trails above this don't see riders going up, I am sure. Get your rocks off there, and share the trails nicely on other stretches.

[leet22]

They've been riding Tokai for years. They think they own the place for that very reason.

 

Downhillers ride down it and have been doing so for years.

 

Nice job.

 

Now.

 

Firstly, I stand corrected, but there is no sign at the top of the berm designating it a downhill. Just the name of the section - Vasbyt - and a red squiggly worm, indicating it is 'Difficult Singletrack.There are numerous other sections with this red annotation, which are not being claimed as downhillers' personal fiefdom. How is a anybody meant to guess?

 

The DH routes further up are called DH, or similar, on their entry signage. If all this stink is about somebody riding up the berm, you guys really need to learn to share the trail a little.

 

It has also been an uphill for years. It has been ridden up since the trail first was developed. For as long as people have ridden down it, they have ridden up it. You get my drift?

 

The trail is steep. Quite right. That is what makes it a challenge to get up. FFS, pensioners can ride up it, I have ridden with people who get up it on a singlespeed, no stops, no dabs. Possibly a deposit of breakfast shortly thereafter, but completely rideable. It is NOT a downhill course, just an XC section with a berm and one set of roots (that are jumpable on a hardtail, go and search for Epic Bike Shop's videos of Lance and Karl Platt doing just that. Wearing lycra).

 

Bitching about only 600m of track, in 30-something kilometres of available track? You don't ride any of the other trails? How many downhillers use Tokai? On a weekend where 600+people pay to enter Tokai(busy weekends are probably more like a thousand), how any are 'downhillers'? 10? 20? I think I am being generous at 20, so let's say 30. MI.NOR.ITY. So, just do what the rest of the people do, enjoy Tokai for recreation and stress release. I promise you will still have fun. The proper DH trails above this don't see riders going up, I am sure. Get your rocks off there, and share the trails nicely on other stretches.

OTM I dont think they moaning about vasbyt, as you say its ridable even on a HT so not to much challange for them.

If they are, well sorry but its not a DH track Vasbyt isnt graded as DH and its open to all. U have just as much chance and going up someones behind if u bombing it down there. I have seen loads of guys struggle going down never mind up.

i think they moaning about guys on DH1 and DH2 trying to ride up it.

[onetrackmind]

OTM I dont think they moaning about vasbyt, as you say its ridable even on a HT so not to much challange for them.

If they are, well sorry but its not a DH track Vasbyt isnt graded as DH and its open to all. U have just as much chance and going up someones behind if u bombing it down there. I have seen loads of guys struggle going down never mind up.

i think they moaning about guys on DH1 and DH2 trying to ride up it.

You have to be pretty talented to even try either!

 

So, DH fellas, are we only talking about these sections, or is Vasbyt the track in question?

[onetrackmind]

OTM I dont think they moaning about vasbyt, as you say its ridable even on a HT so not to much challange for them.

If they are, well sorry but its not a DH track Vasbyt isnt graded as DH and its open to all. U have just as much chance and going up someones behind if u bombing it down there. I have seen loads of guys struggle going down never mind up.

i think they moaning about guys on DH1 and DH2 trying to ride up it.

You have to be pretty talented to even try either!

 

So, DH fellas, are we only talking about these sections, or is Vasbyt the track in question?

[Headshot]

My personal view after nearly 16 years of riding at Tokai and surrounds.

 

I ride a 100/120 mm marathon bike that is set up for dh grip. It could manage just about anything Tokai could throw at it if I was brave enough. Mastering the gap jump on My Roots was quite a mental challenge for me but felt amazing when I finally had the courage to take it. I tackle the singletrack (not the 600m of DH)as fast as possible and try and ride as many jumps and bumps as possible. To me the technical dh s/track where where the fun is, so I generally ride the jeep track up and rip the s/track on the way down. The exception is Boulders and Fairy which I ride both ways.

 

I have no problem with people cycling up some of the more DH oriented tracks that I would never ride up, however, common sense should prevail, especially on those tracks that are effectively DH only - the 600m mentioned in this thread - and the other steeper pieces of singeltrack. Surely the fact that ist step, there are plank judmps and such like indicates people are going to be coming down there, probably at pace?

 

If so, expect bikes to be coming down at speed sometime semi out of control. You are not riding up the fairy garden anymore!If you see me coming, and its possible, please try and let me pass or at least move over a bit. At the same time, when I am bombing down your chosen peice of singletrack, I'll be watching ahead, probably more focused on the trail than you are because I could crash, and I'll try and avoid you while maintaining my momentum. I'm sure this could work - it just requires some common sense and courtesy from both sides.

 

Not everyone is into this sport for the adrenaline - skills levels vary hugely and there are a lot of beginners out there but if we act properly we can all get our kicks on the same trails...

 

My 3c