What makes a MTB climb better?

[Lamber]

On rocky terrain my Epic climbs better than my Scale 30. Loads of traction available. On gravel I prefer my Scale.

 

No doubt! Felt it on the rocky climb at Groenies! Could never get my HT over that hectic rocky climb... Epic eases over it...

[Wyatt Earp]

For sure Gummi, or this :

 

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5183/5607114456_003fa82af9_z.jpg

_MG_4030 by OddPix1, on Flickr

[gummibear]

For sure Gummi, or this :

 

That's hot

[Caerus]

How does a steel frame climb better then a Ali or carbon one?

[mark ellis]

clenbuterol

[AndreZA]

Like this

 

http://www.baumcycles.com/bikes/cordata

 

http://www.baumcycles.com/wp-content/gallery/cordata/cordata-01.jpg

 

ooooo, I almost did something very bad in my pants when I saw those cranks.

[Wyatt Earp]

How does a steel frame climb better then a Ali or carbon one?

Get on one, ride it up various hills and you will know

Before this turns in to s sad-sack technical slingshot argument as per usual

[traaidmark]

I dunno, My previous bike which was more XC orientated felt much better on the climbs than my current more trail orientated bike. Of course all the fitness related stuff apply, but I was much less fit on my previous bike than I am now! So yeah I guess there are some factors in bike design / weight / etc that make one bike climb better than the other.

 

Of course it's also true for going down, my current bike blasts downhill where my previous bike used to suck.

[Caerus]

Get on one, ride it up various hills and you will know

Before this turns in to s sad-sack technical slingshot argument as per usual

 

 

If I could or knew anyone that had a steel frame I would ask to try, but I don't, hence why I'm asking you as you have ridden all three types of frames.

 

Is it due to the flex in the other materials?

[Rydogg]

You can always just get a smaller chainring or a bigger sprocket...

[Chain-L]

How does a steel frame climb better then a Ali or carbon one?

No answer? thought so!

 

Rode with a guy with a steel niner, and he is changing it to carbon. weighs less, absorbs more. To be fair, I haven't been on a steel frame since my 1992 Le Jeune with Reynolds 531 tubing, but carbon makes more sense, or at least to me it makes more sense.

[Chubba]

Understanding Bike Frame Materials

 

Not all bike frames are created equal. Since the backbone of any bike is its frame, it can be enlightening to understand how it's made and what that means for you, the cyclist. The goal of any frame is to offer extraordinary strength with minimum weight. However, frame strength is determined by many factors. Whether the frame is aluminum or chromoly is only part of the equation. The way those materials are used is equally important.

 

Which Material Is Right for You?

 

It depends. Many factors—your style of riding, your weight, your sense of adventure—all play a role in your choice of material. The following paragraphs explain the different types of material commonly used on bikes. A few bikes out there are made of exotic metals, but that's another discussion entirely.

Carbon (High-Tensile) Steel

 

Steel is the most commonly used material in bike frames. Carbon or high-tensile steel is a good, strong, long-lasting steel, but it isn't as light as its more high-tech brother, the steel known as chromoly.

Chromoly (Chrome Molybdenum) Steel

 

A workhorse of the industry, chromoly is a light, strong steel. When it is butted and shaped to take off excess weight, it can deliver a fairly light frame that will last through years of hard use. Chromoly is responsive and offers good flex while maintaining its form.

 

Aluminum

 

Having come a long way from the oversized tubes of old, aluminum is now less expensive and very widely used on today's bikes. It's light, strong and stiff. With proper design it can give a solid ride for climbing, or lively handling in tight situations.

 

Titanium

 

Lighter than steel but just as strong, this more-expensive metal is found on high-end road or cross-country mountain bikes. It flexes so well while maintaining its shape that some very high-end bikes use the metal itself as a shock absorber.

 

Carbon Fiber

 

Take a bundle of parallel continuous fibers and bind them together with glue. This creates a ply. Several plies are made up to form a laminate (just like plywood). And the laminate, if designed right, can be very tough. It's also light. So why aren't all bikes made out of carbon fiber? It tends to be brittle. The fact that metal can bend and regain its shape is what makes it last. Because of this, carbon fiber bikes are built even stronger than needed.

What to Look For in a Frame

 

Manufacturing processes and market trends continue to literally shape the bicycle frame. While not as common as it used to be, the process of butting is still used in the manufacture of bicycle frames. Meanwhile, steel, the long-running workhorse, is being replaced more and more by aluminum—its hardy cousin that grows less expensive every year. So what do you look for in a frame? Is next year's frame necessarily better than this year's?

 

Weight

 

Striving to shave precious grams from frame designs, manufacturers have employed all sorts of exotic metals and methods. Essentially, though, what you pay for is inversely proportional to the weight of your bike. The more you pay, the less it weighs.

Geometry

 

In theory, aggressive angles lead to aggressive ride characteristics. Relaxed angles lead to more casual ride characteristics. Which is best for you? The answer really depends on how much time you spend in the saddle. If you ride a lot and aren't interested in attacking the road or trail, go for a relaxed geometry of about 70 or 71 degrees on the head tube. More aggressive bikes have a head-tube angle of 72 or 73 degrees.

 

Plain-Gauge Tubing

 

Even with advances in materials, manufacturing processes and design, the best frame tubing for the buck is plain-gauge. These are tubes that don't rely on butting (see below) or oversizing or exotic blends, but are straight and strong and easy to manufacture. As a consequence they are cheaper. Those who are "serious" about cycling may point out that plain-gauge tubes weigh more than butted tubes. This is true, but the difference is sometimes only a matter of three or four pounds. If you're just out enjoying the town or trail and not attacking mountains, then this weight difference is of no consequence.

 

Butting

 

The goal of any good bike manufacturer is to put the material where you need it. And you need the material where the bike frame undergoes the most stress—at each end of the various tubes. This process is known as butting.

 

Internal Butting—Looking at the tube, you won't notice butting because it's hidden within the tube. So how do you know if the bike is butted? Bike manufacturers will certainly tell you, as it's a big selling point.

 

External Butting—The older, more expensive way is to add material onto the outside of the tube. This is rarely done anymore. However, you sometimes will see an extended weld. (See below.)

 

There are two methods used to butt a frame tube.

 

Double Butting—As the tube is shaped, extra material is allowed internally at each end of the tube. By increasing these areas of the tube, the overall tube wall thickness can be reduced, thus saving weight.

 

Triple Butting—To save even more weight, the double butting process is refined by stepping down the material at the ends of the tube. This means the butting starts out in the standard, double-butted manner but then is thinned before stepping down again to the normal tube wall thickness. In a cutaway, the inside of the tube looks like three terraced rice paddies on a hillside.

 

Welding

 

There are essentially 3 ways to join frame tubes:

 

•Weld them using the same material as the tube (TIG welding).

•Braze the tubes together using silver or brass.

•Use lugs to join the tubes.

Each method has its proponents, yet nearly all but the very high-end bikes use the TIG welding method. This approach is relatively inexpensive and creates a good, solid weld. However, look closely at a bike's welds. You'll see that quality bikes offer a thick, even weld that goes around the entire tube. On department store bikes the welds are thin and spotty, dabbed down generally on the top, bottom and sides, but leaving open areas in between.

 

Extended Welds—One inexpensive way of adding material to the end of a tube is to simply add welding material. Generally, this is an elliptical circle or a double line extending from the joint to about an inch or so down the tube where it fades out. What's the problem with this method? The heat used in this process can actually weaken the tube. After welding, manufacturers will again heat-treat the entire tube—baking it, essentially—to bring the metal back up to par. While effective, this is a less substantial method than actually building the butting while the tube is being drawn out.

 

What Other Factors Should I Consider?

 

How Long Are You Going to Keep Your Bike?

 

Steel will oxidize (rust) faster than aluminum. However, steel can take more stress over the long run than aluminum. Which is better? If you live in a wet climate, aluminum may be the better choice. Dry climate? You can do well with steel.

 

How Much Do You Weigh?

 

If you go much above the 170-pound mark, whether through big bones or Big Macs, you'll want a bike with a higher strength. This may take an added pound of frame weight to achieve, but it's worth it in the long run. Also, steel and titanium are generally better for bigger riders due to something called elongation. They can flex more without breaking.

 

Is Money a Factor?

 

Though aluminum and titanium have come down in price, steel is still the least expensive metal. But since most cyclists like the lighter weight of aluminum or carbon fiber, manufacturers are creating bikes that are aluminum or carbon fiber and more affordable. Titanium? Still expensive.

[gummibear]

No answer? thought so!

 

Rode with a guy with a steel niner, and he is changing it to carbon. weighs less, absorbs more. To be fair, I haven't been on a steel frame since my 1992 Le Jeune with Reynolds 531 tubing, but carbon makes more sense, or at least to me it makes more sense.

 

What difference does 300grams really make on a bike to the average rider.Steel is heavier but absorbs vibration better than alu or carbon.

Carbon scares me,if it breaks it falls apart,and i have seen a lot of that,at least steel just bends and can be fixed.

 

For me steel is a more comfortable ride especially on the road as i haven't ridden a steel mtb.

[Caerus]

Now I'm more confused as to the OP's question.

 

What are the mass market "steel" bikes made from then as opposed to the high end "steel" frames?

 

So its not, one single thing that makes a bike climb better then another, but rather a multitude of different things.

 

Im gathering its, geometry & material that bear the most significance

[banna]

Now I'm more confused as to the OP's question.

 

What are the mass market "steel" bikes made from then as opposed to the high end "steel" frames?

 

So its not, one single thing that makes a bike climb better then another, but rather a multitude of different things.

 

Im gathering its, geometry & material that bear the most significance

 

Luckily I'm only concerned about going downhill as quickly as possible.

[gummibear]

Now I'm more confused as to the OP's question.

 

What are the mass market "steel" bikes made from then as opposed to the high end "steel" frames?

 

So its not, one single thing that makes a bike climb better then another, but rather a multitude of different things.

 

Im gathering its, geometry & material that bear the most significance

 

Mass market bikes are steel...top end steel frames are lighter and use a mix of steels.

 

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/our_materials_953.php

 

Many things make a bike feel better and angles make a big difference.A bike with a 73deg head tube will feel twichy where a bike with 71 deg will feel like a cruiser

Edited June 8, 2011 by gummibear