(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share So this morning I cycled in town and a lovely lady HOT CHICK waited longer at the stop street than was necessary in order to allow me to pass. I smiled and she rewarded me with a dazzling smile ...... small things like that really make for a good start to the day. Pity I never had the camera ready though Fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luke. Posted February 8, 2012 Share It is not my argument, it is fact, Hairy said that was his response. See, I think what Caveman was getting at, is all his accumulative frustration is vented at the person who comments on his wrong doing.. His retaliation is to blame the cyclists for all the stuff they have done to him.. There was no link to his running a stop and him saying it was the cyclists who anger him, he said that to justify why he came at H&N with a bat! You're confusing me now.. if this happens to me and I shoot him in the face instead of taking his picture, is it the collective fault of all violent motorists? If I do nothing and he beats me to death, it's still down to inconsiderate cyclists? Reallly struggling here... Maybe what you're saying is, if everybody learns to ride considerately, loony's like this will have to take it out on someone else, at home or at the pub? All I know is there's more like this where he came from. Edited February 8, 2012 by Lucky Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share it doesn't have to be complicated, read OP's post again, from the perspective of the driver. Perp is lashing out, nothing logical about it.. He would have done the same to a granny and her little white fluffy dog I suppose, but his short fuse has been burnt by cyclists before and now one is trying to make comment on his bad driving.. A bird sh*ts on your toast. A week later the same type of bird flies passed, you will remember the toast incident and bear some kind of grudge whether it was the same bird or not.. Edited February 8, 2012 by Pain or Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted February 8, 2012 Share Cap you Chop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luke. Posted February 8, 2012 Share it doesn't have to be complicated, read OP's post again, from the perspective of the driver. Perp is lashing out, nothing logical about it.. He would have done the same to a granny and her little white fluffy dog I suppose, but his short fuse has been burnt by cyclists before and now one is trying to make comment on his bad driving.. A bird sh*ts on your toast. A week later the same type of bird flies passed, you will remember the toast incident and bear some kind of grudge whether it was the same bird or not.. Is the bigger problem slow-moving cyclists, or driver attitude? This guy is a barely sentient ape, but in his mind, his actions are validated by the national attitude - cars have more right to the road than bikes. That attitude predates our current spate of 3 abreast cycling during the few months prior to the Argus. The Argus itself was a response to riders feeling unsafe on the roads. In the late '70s. The number of cyclists and density of traffic on the roads must have been a fraction of what we see today. Riders being threatened by drivers will persist even if we all ride single file starting today. I do agree with others that public awareness stuff like the PPA campaign and better club cycling is a good starting point to work at changing attitudes. Ultimately it's the driving and cycling culture that needs to change, not our precise distance from the kerb, or the number of riders side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share Is the bigger problem slow-moving cyclists, or driver attitude? FYI, I have not made any reference to one particular issue, my angle through this entire thread has been rider attitudes which place innocent cyclists under threat. The issue doesn't even have to be big or small, fact is, bad attitude left unchecked is a problem that builds frustration to the level we see here. This is a PRIME example of what I am saying. Second to my point I was trying to make, is that change starts with us. Dubber88 was the first to point out how different the response was from motorists to open courtesy. That is why the riders themselves should back the PPA's efforts to educate motorists. Responsible riding before, during and after the campaign will minimise the backlash from motorists in denial over their attitude to cyclists. This is common sense. My comment (what you termed my argument) is based on this drivers passed experience with what was probably a similar incident to Wannabes opening. Now he's looking for an opportunity to beat up an innocent party due to what seems to be, a cyclists inconsiderate riding habits. Just so happens it was started over something completely unrelated to cycling. Who knows, it could have started years ago.. timeframe has no bearing on the problem and it certainly won't fix it. PS, driver attitude is a by-product of all the bad or good experiences on their daily commute. Edited February 8, 2012 by Pain or Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Java001 Posted February 8, 2012 Share it doesn't have to be complicated, read OP's post again, from the perspective of the driver. Perp is lashing out, nothing logical about it.. He would have done the same to a granny and her little white fluffy dog I suppose, but his short fuse has been burnt by cyclists before and now one is trying to make comment on his bad driving.. A bird sh*ts on your toast. A week later the same type of bird flies passed, you will remember the toast incident and bear some kind of grudge whether it was the same bird or not.. .......... and there you have just inadvertently explained the link between crime and racism in SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niner Posted February 8, 2012 Share Snip Now he's looking for an opportunity to beat up an innocent party due to what seems to be, a cyclists inconsiderate riding habits. Do you honestly want to justify this drivers attitude? Do you go and kick a dent in BMW door because one cut you off months ago ? Edited February 8, 2012 by Niner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luke. Posted February 8, 2012 Share .......... and there you have just inadvertently explained the link between crime and racism in SA. Apparently we're supposed to work within that framework. We must appease the prejudiced masses and this is how we will change things. I don't see it. Didn't work politically and it won't work on the roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share Geez, you again?! Niner, what are you reading? Are you using Firefox? How silly! If you ever decide to read this again, you might get what I am actually saying.. Justify how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share LL, you are saying the PPA's of the world should be left to tackle the problem and not the cause? I know this will be misunderstood so I am retracting the last part. Edited February 8, 2012 by Pain or Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted February 8, 2012 Share Do you honestly want to justify this drivers attitude? Do you go and kick a dent in BMW door because one cut you off months ago ? Thats not what he is saying, I think you know that as well. Its a fact people harbor grudges and generalize attitudes, just read the taxi issue to understand that they are pretty much all painted with a very large brush, yet I can assure you there are some great, friendly and very courteous taxi drivers out there, but they all lumped into the "poor road user" box because of the majority. People build up preconceived ideas over things, so if you are stuck behind aggressive, finger sporting Prima Donna cyclists every day, and that's all you ever see, that will be your perception of cyclists, and you will lump every cyclist out there into that boat, right or wrong, its human nature. In my opinion road cyclists in particular have been acting out an unfriendly and totally aggressive attitude on the roads for years, and that poor attitude still sticks with many drivers, its only with time and a determined effort on the part of the cyclist to change that the perception around us will change as well. Its odd that everyone equates the driver to a heathen (and I agree) but a cyclist pointing the bird and swearing and threatening a motorist is fine - in my opinion we need to look a little more carefully at the log in our eye before we suggest someone else remove theirs. Edited February 8, 2012 by GrumpyOldGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niner Posted February 8, 2012 Share Geez, you again?! Niner, what are you reading? Are you using Firefox? How silly! If you ever decide to read this again, you might get what I am actually saying.. Justify how?Looked to me that you are ok with the drivers actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share Looked to me that you are ok with the drivers actions? Looks to me you need glasses.. "well you guys (AKA cyclists in general) ride in front of me all the time and I have to slow down for you." Why the need to justify it when it is in black and white. This is not the first time you are not getting it?? Edited February 8, 2012 by Pain or Shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luke. Posted February 8, 2012 Share LL, you are saying the PPA's of the world should be left to tackle the problem and not the cause? I'm not sure we agree on the cause. I think the PPA has the right approach - educating drivers. There are millions of them and only a few thousand of us. By 'us' I mean cyclists using the road. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure you are actually riding on the road as you seem to be motivating for cylists to fix this on their own by improving their riding. I cannot fathom how a regular road-using cyclist in South Africa would arrive at that conclusion. I'll do my bit by riding in a sane, life-preserving fashion, being considerate, making room for cars to pass, and suggesting to other riders to do the same. Hopefully clubs will continue to improve marshalling on their rides and educate members on being safe. Beyond that, I'm out of ideas. Fire away if you have any more Cultural shifts take years. Ride on the roads in Europe and I'm sure you'll agree we're very far from where we need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Deon) Posted February 8, 2012 Share In my opinion road cyclists in particular have been acting out an unfriendly and totally aggressive attitude on the roads for years, and that poor attitude still sticks with many drivers, its only with time and a determined effort on the part of the cyclist to change that the perception around us will change as well. Its odd that everyone equates the driver to a heathen (and I agree) but a cyclist pointing the bird and swearing and threatening a motorist is fine - in my opinion we need to look a little more carefully at the log in our eye before we suggest someone else remove theirs. Grumpy, it is the most basic of concepts. I don't understand why there is so much resistance to cleaning out our own house before tackling the side effects. Just heard a notification, can't wait to see what's next... Your last two paragraphs sums it up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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