Prof Tim Noakes' U-turn on Carbohydrates

[Snytjie]

Just read a few pages again after reading up on some links, very good info, thanks guys.

 

+1

 

Topwine, I've also recently started looking more closely into the sugar content of recovery drinks. So far I've seen a number of proponents postulating that, yes, fructose in high levels (i.e. >50g p.d.) probably contributes to ill health, but, that when it comes to athletes consuming it the effects might be less harmful and even beneficial. The difference seems to be in the body state between someone who is just going about daily routine and that of an athlete immediately after a workout. This abstract, for example, summarizes it:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20622544

 

I'm not trying to make an argument in favour of fructose. It's more a case of not wanting to go to great length to avoid something which might not be that harmful at all given that it is used correctly. I've tested a number of recovery drinks, and settled upon FiT Duratrain based on nutritional profile, price and how I myself recover when using it. It does however contain fructose (combined with dextrose to provide 12.14g of sugar per serving). If fructose is bad, period, it means that I should go through the entire process of getting another drink again.

 

As you have obviously looked at this in detail, what do you think? No fructose and basta, or are there certain conditions under which it is not harmful?

[Older]

What was your time in the One Tonner? How does this compare to your previous times while consuming more carbs?

 

I'll PM you my one tonner link on Endomondo.

[Topwine]

+1

 

Topwine, I've also recently started looking more closely into the sugar content of recovery drinks. So far I've seen a number of proponents postulating that, yes, fructose in high levels (i.e. >50g p.d.) probably contributes to ill health, but, that when it comes to athletes consuming it the effects might be less harmful and even beneficial. The difference seems to be in the body state between someone who is just going about daily routine and that of an athlete immediately after a workout. This abstract, for example, summarizes it:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20622544

 

I'm not trying to make an argument in favour of fructose. It's more a case of not wanting to go to great length to avoid something which might not be that harmful at all given that it is used correctly. I've tested a number of recovery drinks, and settled upon FiT Duratrain based on nutritional profile, price and how I myself recover when using it. It does however contain fructose (combined with dextrose to provide 12.14g of sugar per serving). If fructose is bad, period, it means that I should go through the entire process of getting another drink again.

 

As you have obviously looked at this in detail, what do you think? No fructose and basta, or are there certain conditions under which it is not harmful?

 

thank you for taking the time to write this. You raise some good points. I'll give you my view, based on considerable own research, without trying to judge you. I am however not a doctor, and cannot give you medical advice.

 

I cannot read that research paper you mention, because it is only an abstract and there does not seem to be a free complete version available. Without reading the whole thing, it would be impossible to see what and how it was tested. What was their definition of "athletes" Do you fall in this definition ? How long was the study ? Long term effects in athletes ? I have read many reports of long term athletes that still develop metabolic syndrome longterm. Bruce Fordyce and Oscar Chalupscy immediately comes to mind.

 

The same author of that paper concludes in another of his papers on fructose : We suggest excessive fructose intake should be considered an environmental toxin with major health implications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21115612

 

There seems to be no doubt, fructose in higher doses is not healthy and causes metabolic disease. Now, how much is excessive, or too much ? That is the million dollar question. More research would probably get us the correct aswer in the future. But why gamble ? Why not cut it out from your diet? Fructose is only very partially absorved in the small intestines and gets then converted by the liver into fat. When that happens your body stops making use of your fat stores while doing that. You therefore lose some of your fat burning energy. The rest of the fructose is fermented in your big intestines by bacteria to create short chain fatty acids which can be used by body as energy or normally stored as fat. It also creates a lot of gas during this fermentation process in many people or cause stomach cramps or other gastro intestinal problems.

 

The whole idea is to get your body to use its natural energy stores, ie fat, as efficiently as possible. Therefore it must be adapted to burn fat as efficiently as possible. Glucose, (not fructose !) can be supplemented in athletes to help recover their gycogen stores and give some High intensity power, but there is a health payment in the long term imo if these glucose or carb ingestion leads to Blood Glucose spikes which are proven to damage other organ cells like the pancreas and brain nerves.

 

If you eat fruit, you probably get enough fructose in per day already. Taking more with energy drinks is unhealthy imo. If I were you, I would try to find another energy drink or design and make your own with just glucose (dextrose) as energy source.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Topwine

[Snytjie]

Thanks.

 

A good serving of food for thought. I'm pretty much sold on the idea of drinking only water with a small dose of glucose/dextrose during prolonged exercise. I'm however not sure about the recovery part. I'm pretty chuffed with the way the FiT supplement works for me, and I've never recovered better than when using it. It has a 3-1 carb-protein ratio, and works well.

 

I have an event in February, and the next one is then only in September again. Inbetween the two I think I'll experiment with a few homemade concoctions to see if I can achieve the same results without the fructose and the price label...

 

As for the adaptation of your body to burn more fat rather than carbs: +1 on that. I've been using Phil Maffetone's method of endurance training for the last 4 months. In short it is about building your aerobic capabilities which ensures that you burn more fat than carb during endurance exercise. Although I'm certainly not an elite athlete, I've seen some very good results during the past months which only bodes well for the next year. His diet suggestion is also low carb (although not ketonic) in agreement with Tim Noakes, and I've certainly encountered no reason to deter me from following it as principal.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Snytjie

[Topwine]

Thanks.

 

A good serving of food for thought. I'm pretty much sold on the idea of drinking only water with a small dose of glucose/dextrose during prolonged exercise. I'm however not sure about the recovery part. I'm pretty chuffed with the way the FiT supplement works for me, and I've never recovered better than when using it. It has a 3-1 carb-protein ratio, and works well.

 

I have an event in February, and the next one is then only in September again. Inbetween the two I think I'll experiment with a few homemade concoctions to see if I can achieve the same results without the fructose and the price label...

 

As for the adaptation of your body to burn more fat rather than carbs: +1 on that. I've been using Phil Maffetone's method of endurance training for the last 4 months. In short it is about building your aerobic capabilities which ensures that you burn more fat than carb during endurance exercise. Although I'm certainly not an elite athlete, I've seen some very good results during the past months which only bodes well for the next year. His diet suggestion is also low carb (although not ketonic) in agreement with Tim Noakes, and I've certainly encountered no reason to deter me from following it as principal.

 

Great thinking !

 

BTW, I am actually busy reading one of Dr. Phil Maffetone's articles right this moment ! He knows his stuff.

http://naturalrunningcenter.com/2013/01/03/runners-sugar-addiction-white-stuff-running-wearing-out-probably-dr-phil-maffetone/

Edited January 13, 2013 by Topwine

[Man with no name]

 

Great thinking !

 

BTW, I am actually busy reading one of Dr. Phil Maffetone's articles right this moment ! He knows his stuff.

http://naturalrunningcenter.com/2013/01/03/runners-sugar-addiction-white-stuff-running-wearing-out-probably-dr-phil-maffetone/

 

+1. Been applying this for two months and down 6 kgs

[P.A.K.]

Have we lost the LCHF thread? My bookmark isn't working anymore and can't find it in a search

[ebenvn]

Have we lost the LCHF thread? My bookmark isn't working anymore and can't find it in a search

 

Yip, seems so. Its a real pity. Loads of good advise, experiences and comments there...

 

[DaleE]

Me neither. Will be a real shame if it' gone for good - LOTS of worthwhile info on those pages.

[P.A.K.]

I see according to the statement by admin, everything since 15 Jan is gone. That includes the LCHF thread with its plethora of information

[Cois]

I will start a new HFLC tread for us...

[Wet Ears]

I see according to the statement by admin, everything since 15 Jan is gone. That includes the LCHF thread with its plethora of information

 

Absolutely useless!

 

I was only halfway through that thread. I see however that there are recovery specialists amongst us.

[Guest Latent Blue]

Start of the LCHF threads???

[zappa]

Start of the LCHF threads???

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/125843-lchf-low-carb-high-fat-diet-ver-2/

[Guest Latent Blue]

 

https://community.bikehub.co.za/topic/125843-lchf-low-carb-high-fat-diet-ver-2/

 

Theres quite a few of these around

[Lucky Luke.]

Breaking news : Noakes shamed in hotel pizza sting

 

http://www.thegatsby.co.za/2013/02/26/noakes-bust-in-sordid-hotel-room-pizza-bender/