A question for those who run as well

[flymango]

My take on it, plain and simple and this is bike related, so apologies at the OP.

When the lungs run out before the legs, the it's time to work on the cardio, it must get to a point where the legs run out before the lungs.

From there one needs to concentrate on power.

Trust me (or not) you will fly.

Also only cycling related, but somebody told me the other day that 80% of cyclists train in the wrong zone 80% of the time (obviously with reference to HR and not power). In a nutshell, for somebody time-constrained and not in peak condition, do a lot of training in zone 2 (fat) and do some short, quality training in zone 4 (LT). But zone 3 (cardio) on its own serves no real purpose. Views?

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Also only cycling related, but somebody told me the other day that 80% of cyclists train in the wrong zone 80% of the time (obviously with reference to HR and not power). In a nutshell, for somebody time-constrained and not in peak condition, do a lot of training in zone 2 (fat) and do some short, quality training in zone 4 (LT). But zone 3 (cardio) on its own serves no real purpose. Views?

 

Its a commonly held view Flymango, but to be honest, its never worked for me. I find that if I plan to run a marathon at a specific pace, I have to train at pretty much that pace over at least 80% of that distance fairly regularly or I just dont manage it mentally on the day. I guess I have to have proven it in my head first that I can do it, before I can actually replicate that on the day.

 

In "the Lore of running" Prof Noakes pretty much says the same, if you want to race at a certain pace over a certain distance, you have to train likewise.

 

I think its much the same in cycling, unless you have the training confidence to do say a sub 3 or a sub 4 or whatever, I think its very difficult to get your head around it on the day, of course you may get lucky and it all falls into place, but repeating it time and again will be difficult I think.

[Wyatt Earp]

Its a commonly held view Flymango, but to be honest, its never worked for me. I find that if I plan to run a marathon at a specific pace, I have to train at pretty much that pace over at least 80% of that distance fairly regularly or I just dont manage it mentally on the day. I guess I have to have proven it in my head first that I can do it, before I can actually replicate that on the day.

 

In "the Lore of running" Prof Noakes pretty much says the same, if you want to race at a certain pace over a certain distance, you have to train likewise.

 

I think its much the same in cycling, unless you have the training confidence to do say a sub 3 or a sub 4 or whatever, I think its very difficult to get your head around it on the day, of course you may get lucky and it all falls into place, but repeating it time and again will be difficult I think.

Cycling is slightly different.

But alas, people need to listen to and understand their bodies.

Heart rate and heart monitor cost Nick Bester a Comrades win.

[fandacious]

That's high, and you say your cycling is higher ?

 

nope cycling is way lower. running is tough

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Cycling is slightly different.

But alas, people need to listen to and understand their bodies.

Heart rate and heart monitor cost Nick Bester a Comrades win.

 

Yeah, remember that, it was just after Charlie Doll won the Comrades using a HR Monitor, Nick had never heard of them before but he and every other potential winner had one the next year, and sadly it did cost him the race. I actually knew Nick well, havent seen him for a few years now but back in the day I often ran with him and the rest of the guys, we used to meet at Emmerentia and run from there, or at least they ran, I just hung on and looked for the closest turn off point.

[Wyatt Earp]

Yeah, remember that, it was just after Charlie Doll won the Comrades using a HR Monitor, Nick had never heard of them before but he and every other potential winner had one the next year, and sadly it did cost him the race. I actually knew Nick well, havent seen him for a few years now but back in the day I often ran with him and the rest of the guys, we used to meet at Emmerentia and run from there, or at least they ran, I just hung on and looked for the closest turn off point.

He mountain bikes a fair amount nowadays, still a great guy.

 

 

 

nope cycling is way lower. running is tough

Now I get it

[GrumpyOldGuy]

He mountain bikes a fair amount nowadays, still a great guy.

 

Oh okay, but yeah, a real character.

[Red Zone]

I agree that on a flatish course a 1 km road run = around 5km road cycle. As the gradient increases the run gets a bit easier as the power to weight ratio becomes more of a factor (you dont need to drag a bike up the hill when you run). On a seriously hilly course I would rather run than cycle (in terms of effort level)

 

Trail running is a whole different ball game due to the difficult terrain, I find 1 km on a tough trail running course = 10 km on the road. Or 1 km trail run = 5 km mtb.

[Seeker911]

My copy of the "Lore of Running" just arrived. All 900 pages of it !! Must say having studied and written exams all my life I get very "non-interested" when I am faced with reading yet another 900 page book. My first instinct with books is to tear into them and extract only what I need to know. I'm looking at the content page and the question is - what is it that "I need to know" ? or shall i read it cover to cover ....

[GrumpyOldGuy]

My copy of the "Lore of Running" just arrived. All 900 pages of it !! Must say having studied and written exams all my life I get very "non-interested" when I am faced with reading yet another 900 page book. My first instinct with books is to tear into them and extract only what I need to know. I'm looking at the content page and the question is - what is it that "I need to know" ? or shall i read it cover to cover ....

 

I think its a book you can cherry pick from, or at least you dont need to read it in chronological chapters, you can jump around a bit.

 

For me the training sections were very interesting and I found very useful, the chapter on "Racing the Marathon" is essential as well as the chapter on "Racing Limits" you can skim through the medical bit and only read what applies to you and unless you have a youngster starting to run, you can probably skip the "Children and Running section".

 

....but if you have time, read it all, I think it was first produced in 1985, so its got a lot of history behind it.

[SwissVan]

wtf? when I run, i'm always at LT. When I cycle I might hit LT a few times on some hills or sprints, but most of the time its well below LT.

 

What is your running LT heart rate and cycling LT HR? Remember they probably wont be the same.

Normaly running LT will be +/- 5 to 8 % higher than your cycling LT, however this will depend on how well trained you are in each discipline.

You will need to do a running specific LT test and a cycling LT test to determine the true LT levels.

[SwissVan]

 

I think Im asking how many kms of cycling translate to one km of running as an equivalent in terms of effort/effect on the body ? 2km ? 4 km?

Marathon running is on tar roads so I guess Il have to settle for opinions as though it was on a smooth road, and not dirt.

 

This question just keeps popping up, imo its a waste of time trying to figure out how much cycling km's = running km's - No offence meant.

 

In the old days (last freaking century) it was 4:1 hence the old duathlons used to be a 10km run and 40 km cycle, since then they have reduced the amount of cycling in a duathlon but as i said above its pointless as they are 2 completely different activities, one is weight bearing and the other not and the answer (which will never be 100% correct) will always depend on to many factors to be constant.