Lance Armstrong Banned and Stripped of TDF Titles

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Grumps - funny how we see the riders we favour in the light we want to see them. You could say that Conty went the same route with his drug fiasco and played the deny deny deny game. You could say that the plasticides found in his system were from doping tainted blood back. But you didn't.

 

Not trying to start a fight - just pointing out that the light shines differently on people when you form some kind of emotional bond with them. Actually not even with them because few of us actually meet the riders we admire.

 

Me - I say Jan was the coolest rider ever. Sure he doped like Berto and Lancey but at least he threw in some recreational stuff and crashed Porsches through rows of bicycles like a real rock star. Fighting the winter bulge also threw in a nice human element.

 

I like Jan but not Lance or Berto - and yet all 3 are tainted.

 

Sure, in his day I was a big Jan fan - no pun intended - and I have often said so, he was one of the few guys of the day who actually lived a normal life off the bike and outside of the sport, plus he was an all round nice guy.

 

Met him once, at the Argus, he pulled up close to where we were standing in a hummer, on his own, pulled out his bike, on his own, checked it and rode off, no fan fare, no body guards, no helicopters and big press, just Jan going to the race, and if you didnt know it was Jan, he would not have told you.

 

Saw him later at a drink stand, you would remember the incident, he punctured and didnt have a spare tube, or maybe he had tubbies, I cant remember, but he pushed his bike to the refreshment stand and while he waited for the repair he handed out drinks and chocolates to the cyclists, caused quite a hubbub, and later on the TV interview he said it was great fun, but yeah, I liked him too, I thought he was an all round nice guy.

[Tumbleweed]

Thats a moot point really - the fact that he set one up should gain him some brownie points. BUT WAIT! He makes money off it so cancel brownie points. BUT WAIT! He helps millions of people so points back. BUT WAIT! Lance is a fraud so no points. Ah whatever - if you like him he gets points - if not no points. Logic and fact (the few that there are) doesn't factor in this entire thread...

 

Your post sounds like a Verimark ad. Not likely a successful one. Hahahahahahahahaha!

[Wyatt Earp]

Not sure thats fair mate, and I will tell you why, many people fail to separate "LA the athlete" and "LA the person".

 

As an athlete I think LA was spectacular, certainly the best of his era, possibly ever, but as a person, No, not so much, actually I think he was a rather unlikable personality, a litigious bully who liked to remind everyone of his cancer history on a regular basis, and someone who found unmitigated joy in demeaning others.

 

I dont look up to athletes, never have, and I dont consider them stars, but I am a fan of some, there's a difference, but LA was never one of them.

 

You mentioned 'Berto somewhere else as a comparison, well, they both have a similar history, but thats all, and many would go "Wow I didnt know that" when told he has a steel plate in his head, Yup, that his brain was almost leaking out of his skull after a crash, that he was in a coma for weeks, that doctors thought he may never walk again,... if he lived of course!!... let alone ride a bike, or win every Grand tour there was / is,... some twice,...so yeah, they could be forgiven though, because unlike LA he never mentions it.!!

 

They might also go "Gee Whizz", when told he is also a patron of a major charity, and has changed many a life in his own small way, sadly, he doesn't have Major American Corporate money behind him like LA has, but he is Spanish, and American corporate money wont flow there, sadly neither do the big bill boards and the TV coverage, or the $4000.00 a head Corporate dinners and fund raisers from those in Corporate and political power, No, its a lot more toned down in Europe, and especially Spain, who is almost bankrupt, so, he do's what he can, but yeah,.......... he never mentions that much either.!

 

Then of course everyone is quick to cough up the "Steak" issue,... Okay, so he was caught with a minuscule amount of Clen, he took his punishment and he is back,.....No disgrace,... in comparison to LA, who, it could easily be argued, possibly lead one of the worlds greatest sporting frauds ever,.........No, I hardly think its comparable!.

 

Am I a 'Berto fan?.....damn right, I think he is a humble man who says little about himself and his achievements or successes, I also think he is possibly the greatest tour rider (athlete) of the decade, better, and far more versatile than LA ever was, and I wish him well, I hope he go's from strength to strength.

 

As for the "present 2012 LA"?, probably he has mellowed a bit lately, age do's that and your views on life and its impact on you change as you get older, and I think its changed him for the better.

 

My opinion that he was a superb athlete and probably would have won anyway, even without the cloud of dope, hasn't really changed, I still believe he has been hiding a demon in his backyard for years, and he knew, if it got out, it would destroy him, but I also dont really care much either, I was never interested that much in the doping culture anyway,.... so, my wish for LA now is that he is able to change, move forward, and start living up to his mantle of "LA the greatest cyclist", by working on been "LA the nicest man",..... I think he can do it!.

 

Grumpy, great story and I will not try and turn this in to a fight.

What you typed flew right over my "emotional" head as I am no fan of Contador, even if his story had more drama attached to it.

 

I also don't see it any different to Armstrong, it's simply on a smaller scale.

It's like the old adage people like to use, "is stealing a pie any different to stealing a million bucks"

 

Again, my comment was not in favor of Armstrong nor Contador, but we are all hypocrites, and it's being biased that makes us that way.

 

Just for the record, I am not an Armstrong groupie either, but to now pounce down on him like he has committed the biggest crimes the world has ever endured, is just amusing, and even more so when all the Contador supporters are the ones more guilty of this.

 

It swing both ways.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

These two athletes just seem to fit squarely in to where I am at in my belief.

[Wyatt Earp]

 

 

Given what we know about LA and 'Berto, it is not possible to distinguish between the person and the medication.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Grumps - funny how we see the riders we favour in the light we want to see them. You could say that Conty went the same route with his drug fiasco and played the deny deny deny game. You could say that the plasticides found in his system were from doping tainted blood back. But you didn't.

 

Not trying to start a fight - just pointing out that the light shines differently on people when you form some kind of emotional bond with them. Actually not even with them because few of us actually meet the riders we admire.

 

Me - I say Jan was the coolest rider ever. Sure he doped like Berto and Lancey but at least he threw in some recreational stuff and crashed Porsches through rows of bicycles like a real rock star. Fighting the winter bulge also threw in a nice human element.

 

I like Jan but not Lance or Berto - and yet all 3 are tainted.

 

Jan, will be missed forever ..........

[Squier]

 

 

This is like my 85 year old uncle's sex life. Regular and spectacular erections, the finest they have seen in the old age home.

 

However, nobody knows how he would perform without the Viagra.

 

Given what we know about LA and 'Berto, it is not possible to distinguish between the person and the medication.

 

Eddy, regardless of the meds, the old ladies in the home gets to see some action, and that's what matters!

 

Give your uncle some credit here, just pitching up with an erection will get the old gal smiling, but he still has to put some back into it to get her to scream his name!

[Eldron]

 

 

Your post sounds like a Verimark ad. Not likely a successful one. Hahahahahahahahaha!

 

Indeedy! I guess I'm already over the Lance Armstrong "bust". Ironically I don't think it's changed anything. The disciples will keep on discipling and the haters will keep on hating.

 

Has anyone here actually changed their view on Armstrong?

 

Or Conty when he got bust?

 

Or Jan?

 

Or Merckx even?

[Wyatt Earp]

I was asked by some non cycling mates (who heard about this) on the weekend as to how this is going to affect my cycling.

 

I answered them by saying I will be getting on my bike in the morning like I have done since I can remember.

[_C50_]

A number of years ago when Ben Johnson got nabbed for steroid use I saw an interview with Carl Lewis about it and he said at that point that there were certain coaches that were known for that sort of thing and that most of the athletes training under that certain coach would be users. Yes I know it's ironic but the principle stands. How many of you associate yourselves with known drug dealers?

Ahh... Carl Lewis. Quite rich coming from him speaking out against Johnson, and more recently against the Jamaican sprinters. Seeing that he himself tested positive back in the day. Do yourself a favour and watch this documentary: Bigger, Stronger, Faster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster* Edited August 29, 2012 by _C50_

['Dale]

Someone earlier wrote about a TRC process for cycling, maybe?

 

Here's a cool article from Inner Ring.

 

 

http://inrng.com/2012/08/truth-and-reconciliation-pro-cycling/

[Tumbleweed]

Ahh... Carl Lewis. Quite rich coming from him speaking out against Johnson, and more recently against the Jamaican sprinters. Seeing that he himself tested positive back in the day. Do yourself a favour and watch this documentary: Bigger, Stronger, Faster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigger,_Stronger,_Faster*

 

There's a book about that infamous race called "The Dirtiest Race in History: Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis and the Olympic 100m Final" by Richard Moore. Business Day's Sport magazine carried an exceprt from it about a month back.

[_C50_]

There's a book about that infamous race called "The Dirtiest Race in History: Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis and the Olympic 100m Final" by Richard Moore. Business Day's Sport magazine carried an exceprt from it about a month back.

 

The pot calling the kettle black....

 

Pardon the pun.

['Dale]

Not sure thats fair mate, and I will tell you why, many people fail to separate "LA the athlete" and "LA the person".

 

As an athlete I think LA was spectacular, certainly the best of his era, possibly ever, but as a person, No, not so much, actually I think he was a rather unlikable personality, a litigious bully who liked to remind everyone of his cancer history on a regular basis, and someone who found unmitigated joy in demeaning others.

 

I dont look up to athletes, never have, and I dont consider them stars, but I am a fan of some, there's a difference, but LA was never one of them.

 

You mentioned 'Berto somewhere else as a comparison, well, they both have a similar history, but thats all, and many would go "Wow I didnt know that" when told he has a steel plate in his head, Yup, that his brain was almost leaking out of his skull after a crash, that he was in a coma for weeks, that doctors thought he may never walk again,... if he lived of course!!... let alone ride a bike, or win every Grand tour there was / is,... some twice,...so yeah, they could be forgiven though, because unlike LA he never mentions it.!!

 

They might also go "Gee Whizz", when told he is also a patron of a major charity, and has changed many a life in his own small way, sadly, he doesn't have Major American Corporate money behind him like LA has, but he is Spanish, and American corporate money wont flow there, sadly neither do the big bill boards and the TV coverage, or the $4000.00 a head Corporate dinners and fund raisers from those in Corporate and political power, No, its a lot more toned down in Europe, and especially Spain, who is almost bankrupt, so, he do's what he can, but yeah,.......... he never mentions that much either.!

 

Then of course everyone is quick to cough up the "Steak" issue,... Okay, so he was caught with a minuscule amount of Clen, he took his punishment and he is back,.....No disgrace,... in comparison to LA, who, it could easily be argued, possibly lead one of the worlds greatest sporting frauds ever,.........No, I hardly think its comparable!.

 

Am I a 'Berto fan?.....damn right, I think he is a humble man who says little about himself and his achievements or successes, I also think he is possibly the greatest tour rider (athlete) of the decade, better, and far more versatile than LA ever was, and I wish him well, I hope he go's from strength to strength.

 

As for the "present 2012 LA"?, probably he has mellowed a bit lately, age do's that and your views on life and its impact on you change as you get older, and I think its changed him for the better.

 

My opinion that he was a superb athlete and probably would have won anyway, even without the cloud of dope, hasn't really changed, I still believe he has been hiding a demon in his backyard for years, and he knew, if it got out, it would destroy him, but I also dont really care much either, I was never interested that much in the doping culture anyway,.... so, my wish for LA now is that he is able to change, move forward, and start living up to his mantle of "LA the greatest cyclist", by working on been "LA the nicest man",..... I think he can do it!.

 

What a post, ma man!

 

[Dirt De Vil]

It is always interesting to see the legion of different doepas cyclists take with when participating in races like the 94.7 or argus. The first thought always seems to be - what can I eat or drink that will help me survive the race or do a sub 3 etc etc. We are a competitive species and will do everything possible to better our chances, even if you know you will finish 11000th in the Argus. Herein lies the dilemma, how do you suddenly switch that off when money and fame is involved. I personally do not think the pro's do, some simply control that impulse better than others and like one of the hubbers said, they all dope some just stay below the levels that will get you in trouble. Lance probably did the same and never tested positive, but over a career of 15+ years 10 or so people will definitely see you doing it.

 

It all revolves in and around a cesspool of greed, vendettas, tv coverage, marketing, propaganda, censationalism etc etc. The freedom challenge and Martin Dreyer 10 day record is a prime example, tv channels are not lining up to broadcast it everyday, teams with the best equipment, sponsor etc are not lining up to compete simply because it is not the perfect recipe to make money for people and corporations attached to cycling and the cyclist like leeches. Martin's achievement out shines that of any TDF yellow jersey winner by far. Just imagine the determination, mental strength and focus, physical fitness and stamina, self confidence and sheer will to complete a freedom challenge.

 

We are all feulling this fire whether we agree or not!

 

Your decisions will revisit you, hopefully bearing fruit and not to haunt you. Let's ride...for ourselves, our kids, to keep great events alive, for more awesome trails and parks, for fun, for fitness...

[GrumpyOldGuy]

 

 

These two athletes just seem to fit squarely in to where I am at in my belief.

 

Naa, no argument, and Indeed I hear you,..... and actually I dont even have a dog in this fight so for me, its fine, but I really couldn't bring myself to like LA during his rein, although strangely enough I see him as a lot more human now, .... someone I could share a cheeseburger with maybe, before, I dare say I couldn't,.... he was the antithesis of everything I believed in and stood for, I dont wish him ill, I never have, but if someone had to ask me who do I like more as a man, I believe 'Berto towers head and shoulders above LA.

[nathrix]

Another Zapiro cartoon

 

http://www.zapiro.co...tt#.UD3zeaBtx8F

 

http://www.zapiro.com/Cartoons/m_120828tt.jpg

 

Description & Background

 

Zapiro's cartoon show the three Armstrongs at the Hall of Fame, Louis, Neil and Lance. Louis Armstrong (1901 – 1971), nicknamed Satchmo or Pops, was an internationally famous Afro-American jazz trumpeter and singer from New Orleans, Louisiana. Neil Armstrong , who recently died on 25 August 2012, was an American astronaut and the first person to walk on the Moon. Lance Armstrong born in 1971 and winner of the Tour de France record seven timeswinner between 1999 and 2005. He miraculously survived testicular cancer. .Recently he was declared guilty of being a drug cheat and stripped of those medalls by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA). He now belongs to the Hall of Infamy rather than Fame.

People in the cartoon

 

Louis Armstrong / Neil Armstrong / Lance Armstrong