jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share It'll all be ok. How many times previously have we heard that cycling will be dead, the tour cancelled etc? Just do the right thing already and start at the top! Maybe the truth and reconciliation commission is the way to go. Will be fun watching them throw each other under the bus. I don't know what the answer is but I do know what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Rat Posted October 12, 2012 Share That's been my line of thinking here as well. They should have thought of the athlete before the sport when this all started, it's a bit late now. Where is it going to leave the world of cycling and the athletes now if this whole can of worms really does come to the surface. How far will they go? It might be good if they do start making the race organisers realise that humans can only push so far and things need to change but money makes the world go around, is that ever really going to happen?The organisers, the teams, the sponsors and the riders themselves will all have to take major pay cuts. I agree I see that a reset is required ( I bet UCI looking for the ctrl alt del function right now) it is going to be interesting to see where the leadership going to come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldGuy Posted October 12, 2012 Share To the folks who have gone through the USADA report in detail, have any previously unheard of *NEW positive test results been revealed, confirmed? *New, meaning ones that were never suggested / revealed /discussed before the USADA report was issued i.e. excluding the Tour of Switzerland, LeEquipe epo, shammy cream, 2009 / 2010 comeback blood values, ect… ones I haven't seen any, but I haven't read it all,........ but it deals mostly with LA and his Postal chums, there is no mention of people not associated with either Postal or LA - or none that I have seen yet anyway, so I would say its unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share “It’s pretty damning stuff. It is pretty jaw-dropping the amount of people who have testified against him,” Wiggins told Sky News on Thursday. “It is certainly not a one-sided hatchet job, it is pretty damning. I am shocked at the scale of the evidence. From velonews. I saw the Wiggo interview and it was cringeworthy. He 'forgot' that he was in the TdF with Lance in 2009 when with Garmin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dracs Posted October 12, 2012 Share So a couple of questions for those celebrating: Are you also happy that all the confessed dopers in the report (other than LA) are getting IN EFFECT no punishment at all?Do you really believe that all of them never doped before Lance and only doped because of him? If yes to above I suppose you really do believe that Lance made them do it - poor little victims. I then understand why you see there should be one set of rules for Lance and another for the rest... For me - not so much. Lance deserves to have his results expunged as much as the rest do - no more no less. you can't make up the rules as you go (such as ignoring the statute of limitations for 1 guy). Much of the report is moralising and argumentative - rather than simply presenting the facts. No reason for this other than to continue trying to justify the crusade and the special treatment given to LA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 12, 2012 Share I agree I see that a reset is required ( I bet UCI looking for the ctrl alt del function right now) it is going to be interesting to see where the leadership going to come from. Alas, Fat Pat kinda poo-pooed the idea of a cycling TRC. So it's not with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted October 12, 2012 Share But schumi is retiring. Hamilton's taking his place at Mercedes, so what difference does it make? bob - where were you yesterday. I wanted to have a beer with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share I haven't seen any, but I haven't read it all,........ but it deals mostly with LA and his Postal chums, there is no mention of people not associated with either Postal or LA - or none that I have seen yet anyway, so I would say its unlikely. Also haven't seen the detailed report but authorities in Italy and Belguim are also busy preparing charges for Ferrari and Bruyneel so maybe there will be new evidence. Was any team racing "clean" in the tour between 1988 and 2008? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 12, 2012 Share Are you also happy that all the confessed dopers in the report (other than LA) are getting IN EFFECT no punishment at all? Yes and no. But they got the bans dictated by the rules. Do you really believe that all of them never doped before Lance and only doped because of him? Yes and no. But there was pressure put on some of them to do it. Edited October 12, 2012 by Tumbleweed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted October 12, 2012 Share Are you also happy that all the confessed dopers in the report (other than LA) are getting IN EFFECT no punishment at all?Do you really believe that all of them never doped before Lance and only doped because of him? some of them, definitely. Zabriskie was one of the ones who LA came down heavily on for not following the program. He was told "dope or be kicked off the team". There were others as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River Rat Posted October 12, 2012 Share Alas, Fat Pat kinda poo-pooed the idea of a cycling TRC. So it's not with him. I'm not surprised, what has been highlighted throughout this whole messy affair is how the focus has been on trying maintain the status quo and the future of the sport is not on anyone's agenda. I hoping for a cometh the hour, cometh the man outcome to this. @JCZA I don't believe that this event is quite the same as the past. I don't think you can relate this to a simple case of a top rider being caught for drugs, it does suggest a systemic problem and perhaps Wonder Women (+ others) might be onto something with the suggestion that the riders are simply being pushed to far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christie Posted October 12, 2012 Share Jan Ulrich never tested positive at the TDF. It was only in 2005 that a Puerto blood bag was suspected to contain his blood, same with Basso. There is no proof or testimonies that they doped before 2005. Imo there is no option but to move the title to the next rider in line who have not tested positive during that race or admitted to doping. Else all Contador's wins must also be stripped because he tested positive in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonder Woman Posted October 12, 2012 Share So a couple of questions for those celebrating: Are you also happy that all the confessed dopers in the report (other than LA) are getting IN EFFECT no punishment at all?Do you really believe that all of them never doped before Lance and only doped because of him? If yes to above I suppose you really do believe that Lance made them do it - poor little victims. I then understand why you see there should be one set of rules for Lance and another for the rest... For me - not so much. Lance deserves to have his results expunged as much as the rest do - no more no less. you can't make up the rules as you go (such as ignoring the statute of limitations for 1 guy). Much of the report is moralising and argumentative - rather than simply presenting the facts. No reason for this other than to continue trying to justify the crusade and the special treatment given to LA... I fully agree, all guilty parties must pay. Every single one of them had the choice to say no and get a new job. Though there is a lot underlying the fact that Lance really was the dope king and led a lot of people to go that way. I'm glad I don't have the decision to make. Edited October 12, 2012 by Wonder Woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcza Posted October 12, 2012 Share So a couple of questions for those celebrating: Are you also happy that all the confessed dopers in the report (other than LA) are getting IN EFFECT no punishment at all?Do you really believe that all of them never doped before Lance and only doped because of him? If yes to above I suppose you really do believe that Lance made them do it - poor little victims. I then understand why you see there should be one set of rules for Lance and another for the rest... Not celebrating but I find this investigation absolutely fascinating. I still think Lance showed great determination even if he doped. I also think he acted like a knobhead and a bully. I still look forward to next years tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fandacious Posted October 12, 2012 Share I read the whole document yesterday. Pretty interesting. But if you couldnt be bothered reading 200pages, then just read the summary (Page 5) http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/ReasonedDecision.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumbleweed Posted October 12, 2012 Share @JCZA I don't believe that this event is quite the same as the past. I don't think you can relate this to a simple case of a top rider being caught for drugs, it does suggest a systemic problem and perhaps Wonder Women (+ others) might be onto something with the suggestion that the riders are simply being pushed to far. Interesting point. The Vuelta and Giro parcours are notoriously hectic compared to a Tour that is sometimes described as formulaic. I recently read Fignon's book. He rode at a time when I reckon speed was the big drug. I suppose 'roids and hormones were around too. However, he laments what he calls the dumbing down of cycling, when organisers started cutting the lengths of one-day races and stages in multi-day events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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