Cape Town Riders. Submit your TMNP MTB trails. Legal or illegal.

[Scooter69]

Ummmmmmm.................and how soon will the words "MONEY" and "COMPULSORY MEMBERSHIP" raise their ugly heads.

 

:D :D :D

[Shebeen]

Edit: and this is where a forum comes in, such as what these guys have been doing. Long may the forum last! Dont want any more of you table mountain lot trekking past the airport to come to the decent land of the west. To ride your bikes that it is

does not compute

we need to go east to go past the airport.

[Slowbee]

travel east long enough and you will be in the west !

[tubed]

Hi Slowbee,

 

I appreciate your point and your constructive contribution and I think we are on the same page - but certainly my point was also that Sanparks cannot do with the land as they please, this would mean that they could sell it/ develop it as they please, this is not the case, they are custodians of the land on our behalf subject to a broad mandate and an Act of parliament - in my view it is simply that they cannot manage it in respect of mountain biking right now so they disallow the activities (which is when they evict riders) - it is not that they are opposed to mtb per se.

 

I guess the best illustration of my point is probably that Christophe tresspassed by jumping the fence, while my riding in Cecilia would constitute a non-permitted activity - but I don't need permission to be there.

 

I will conceed that some of the officials we have had to deal with in the past have acted like they own the land - but when it comes down to a sensible process to advance the use of mtb in the park - that heavy handed approach doesnt cut it.

 

Time and the efforts of people like Rob will change this.

[Slowbee]

tubed, I see your point and raise it a point. You missed the context of the post in addition to reading things into it that are not their.

 

But your point will be last. So lets leaves it at that till we can talk over some coffee.

[Hairy]

Hi Rob

 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Pipe Track yet. Had no idea this was off bounds when we went there, but it made for one hell of a great ride.

[kandui]

Morning.

If I may add something to the debate. The patch of land called Table Mountain National Park (from the tip of Signal Hill to the tip of Cape Point) actually belongs to the City of Cape Town (so by extension, us the ratepayers) , but the mandate to manage the land was handed over to San Parks by the City. Don't ask me exactly when, I didn't ask that question. There is actually a person at the City who functions as the go-between, between the City and San Parks.

Having spoken at length to him not so long ago, believe me when I tell you that the City is not always happy with the way San Parks handle issues in the Park. I approached the City to see where they stood on the issue of access to the mountain (in general) and they definitely want the open access. But, and this is where their hands are tied to an extent. The City has handed over management of the land to San Parks which means the Park has now become part of the total San Parks portfolio and a lot of decisions are taking in Pretoria and no longer here , on the ground , in Cape Town.

Problem.

As we know by now, revenue from the Level 3 Activity Card and day permits we as MTBers buy to access Tokai, goes into the general San Parks fiscus and could end up being used in Kruger for infrastructure maintenance.

The TM MTB Forum (let me repeat for some Hubbers, this is not my club) will put this issue on the table and try to work out a better deal, where the monies generated in Tokai, stay in Tokai, or at least stay on the mountain where the money should be used.

 

And to reply to a post further back. The TM MTB Forum will not levy a membership fee from members (members are organisations, not individuals). The Forum is not meant to be another layer to complicate matters. The Forum is simply the pointy end of a funnel. Everyone pours concerns and ideas into the funnel and the Forum goes to San Parks, City, land owners and "other" with that information on behalf of ALL mountain bikers.

[kandui]

Hi Rob

 

Not sure if anyone has mentioned the Pipe Track yet. Had no idea this was off bounds when we went there, but it made for one hell of a great ride.

Morning Hairy. The pipe track is on the list , thanks for mentioning it. Extend it and you're in Hout Bay. half way back to town via Newlands. Makes sense to include it in the EMP.

[Hairy]

Morning Hairy. The pipe track is on the list , thanks for mentioning it. Extend it and you're in Hout Bay. half way back to town via Newlands. Makes sense to include it in the EMP.

 

It would make a awesome ride if that could become a legal loop!

[kandui]

It would make a awesome ride if that could become a legal loop!

That's my goal! I hope I get to ride it on 2 wheels and not in a wheelchair

[(Deon)]

The City has handed over management of the land to San Parks which means the Park has now become part of the total San Parks portfolio and a lot of decisions are taking in Pretoria and no longer here , on the ground , in Cape Town.

 

As we know by now, revenue from the Level 3 Activity Card and day permits we as MTBers buy to access Tokai, goes into the general San Parks fiscus and could end up being used in Kruger for infrastructure maintenance.

The TM MTB Forum (let me repeat for some Hubbers, this is not my club) will put this issue on the table and try to work out a better deal, where the monies generated in Tokai, stay in Tokai, or at least stay on the mountain where the money should be used.

 

• "The City has handed over management of the land to San Parks which means the Park has now become part of the total San Parks portfolio and a lot of decisions are taking in Pretoria and no longer here , on the ground , in Cape Town."
  

Rob, just need to make clear that many decisions are in the hands of TMNP, while a part of SANParks, it remains autonomous in operation. Sure, there are matters that require Pretoria to call the shots, but I think to make that statement you would need to clarify what specifically without making it sound like we cannot get anywhere with what TMMTB propose. Regarding activities on the mountain, this is TMNP's arena and TMMTB are speaking to the right people in their preferred language. This Region, as do others, are required to manage their own revenue stream without the adverse affects to its mandate of conservation. But there again, there are checks and balances in place to prevent mismanagement.. enter SANBI who provide TMNP with the conservation requirements... big brother if you will.

• "As we know by now, revenue from the Level 3 Activity Card and day permits we as MTBers buy to access Tokai, goes into the general San Parks fiscus and could end up being used in Kruger for infrastructure maintenance. The TM MTB Forum (let me repeat for some Hubbers, this is not my club) will put this issue on the table and try to work out a better deal, where the monies generated in Tokai, stay in Tokai, or at least stay on the mountain where the money should be used."
  

This one is tricky. Money and the Park has always rung the witch alarm bell. I feel it is important to know what it is being used for before removing the source of income - which is largely a mountain bike contribution alongside Cape Point, Boulders etc...

 

Do we need the money from access permits? Hmm, I am not sure we do, but in effect TMNP have already offered a portion of the permit fees, a discount for resale. Each person will be making a contribution to the trails on the mountain and not just Tokai, sure they can choose where the money will go but it must be clear that anyone buying an activity card will be making a contribution to the hill as a whole.. So this matter is partially solved.

 

Do we want a witch hunt to look for the monies from the last few years? Me, I don't. For me knowing that currently my access money goes to conservation (eg. anti Rhino poaching unit in Kruger) gives me the warm and fuzzies because I am making a contribution, even though saying that means that I have maintained trails without remuneration for many years.. Why? Because I am a mountain biker and it actually is just that that matters! I ride in a conserved pristine area and as a user I am donating money towards the continued management of the mountain and the management of a broader natural resource that SA is known the world over for... This activity is growing and as tubed said, is becoming a viable form of income for TMNP. Therefore we have made a considerable change in how the activity is viewed, just by doing what we love. TMNP will support that if it is managed... Enter the TMMTB.

 

(Tokai as a model in revenue is proving vital to cycling in TMNP managed land mainly due to access control. I know cycling anywhere on the mountain is amazing and Tokai is really only the playground on the hill, but what it means to TMNP and the broader picture SANPArks' sites, those without a sustainable revenue, is invaluable.)

 

Was I right to post my views?? Dunno, but I tell you what, I would love to know how many people are ok with giving money to conservation and in exchange being allowed to do the thing they love in the place they love it...

Edited September 7, 2012 by Pain or Shine

[Kranky]

Quick question. The stretch of lower jeep track from Cecilia car park to top of Southern Cross Drive, is that fair game? I mostly want to use it for commuting purposes and I've noticed a few riders coming out of the car park.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Goobacks

[MPrider]

looks like you got 2 jobs done so far:

1) you commercialized riding on table mountain, as your "rules of the trail" state that we will (now) have to be in possession of a permit - Thanks for that! and

2) you made it perfectly clear to everybody that riding any other trail than indicated on your map is illegal and you therefore gave every opposing dog walker more ammunition against us.

 

well done!

[JGR]

looks like you got 2 jobs done so far:

1) you commercialized riding on table mountain, as your "rules of the trail" state that we will (now) have to be in possession of a permit - Thanks for that! and

2) you made it perfectly clear to everybody that riding any other trail than indicated on your map is illegal and you therefore gave every opposing dog walker more ammunition against us.

 

well done!

Your ignorance is outstanding - full marks. Well done!

[American Flyers]

It will be nice if they can organise cycling path from Tokai or Constantia to town to keep us off the busy roads....while commuting to work and back home.

[DJR]

looks like you got 2 jobs done so far:

1) you commercialized riding on table mountain, as your "rules of the trail" state that we will (now) have to be in possession of a permit - Thanks for that! and

2) you made it perfectly clear to everybody that riding any other trail than indicated on your map is illegal and you therefore gave every opposing dog walker more ammunition against us.

 

well done!

 

Please read this whole thread, educate yourself about Table Mountain Bikers and what they have done and are trying to do. It is about gaining more access to the mountain in a legal and environmentally responsible fashion to the benefit of all mountainbikers.