GoLefty!! Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Corporates don't understand touchy feely stuff, especially a transport operator. Does a fatality like this affect their scorecard, share pricing or bottom line? Most likely not! They either make money or they don't and we get in the way so we forfeit our rights to life in their minds by enjoying a simple pass time.Provincial Government and our representing bodies are too busy trying to tickle each other under the table to do anything meaningful. If they realy wanted to take an interest in safety they would be making a concerted effort not just printing bumper stickers.... Effort is hitting these transporter were it hurts, in their pocket. GA must still have shareholders and a board. That board needs to be taken to task. But heres where we, the cycling community is so naive, we 're children really but I can't understand how we function at work.. Heres their "social responsibility blurb": CORPORATE SOCIAL INVESTMENT:FROM THE GOLDEN ARROW FOUNDATION TO THE HCI FOUNDATIONThe Golden Arrow Foundation (GAF) was founded in 1993 as a way to give back to the communities served by Golden Arrow’s scheduled bus services. Having always taken great pride in community involvement the donation of 50% of the Company’s shares as a capital base for the newly formed foundation was merely the formalisation and extension of many years of philanthropic involvement. Following the acquisition of Golden Arrow Bus Services by Hosken Consolidated Investments (HCI) the Golden Arrow Foundation was incorporated into the HCI Foundation.Since then the Foundation has continued to provide financial support to a number of community initiatives across a wide-spectrum including education and early childhood development, health and welfare and social development.The last seven years have seen Golden Arrow’s Community Transport Support Project touch the lives of thousands of people across the peninsula. This specific project falls under the auspices of the HCI Foundation and functions as a partnership between the Foundation, Golden Arrow Bus Services, and the projects which deliver a variety of educational and recreational programmes to various communities. These programmes range from providing an opportunity for children from underprivileged communities to enjoy and participate in performing arts, heritage, sport and educational excursions; to providing visual arts lessons for teachers and children as well as extra maths and science lessons for school learners. The programme has proved so successful that it was awarded the 2009 BASA award in the Sponsorship in Kind category.Golden Arrow’s Company Social Investment (CSI) efforts were also recognised by the National Department of Social Development and the CSI Registrar as being a “Level 3 Gold Contributor”. The certificate of recognition “commends and honours Golden Arrow for the continued compassion and generosity demonstrated in assisting those least fortunate of Our Nation”.Their Best operating practice promise: Best Operating Practice Sophisticated operating systems which have evolved with time and been refined to a high level of detail have been the backbone of the Company’s management and control over the last 150 years. The Company boasts best practice systems in the areas of ticketing, scheduling, cash management, operations monitoring and wireless communication. Not a single mention of safety, responsible citizenship And their driver training Driver Training Road Safety and Driver Behaviour Golden Arrow’s mission is to operate safe, reliable transport services designed to meet the needs of its customers.(So screw other road users) The Company’s safety interventions are primarily focused on the driver, the bus and vigilant compliance with all regulations pertaining to road safety and traffic management.(Which is why we witness GA Buses racing around pavement hogging and berating other road users with threats of bodily harm) This holistic approach to road safety makes it possible for Golden Arrow to ensure that each and every employee is aware of the critical role that he/she plays in maintaining GABS’ sterling safety record . Below are some of the key safety interventions: Poster Campaign Golden Arrow, recognising the need for an inclusive programme, designed its safety campaign so that staff would not only be reminded of the vital importance of safety during training and meetings but that it would be present everywhere, every day. To this end a company wide campaign consisting of strategically located posters has been implemented. The posters display messages that reinforce the roles and responsibilities of each and every driver and ensures that road safety forms the basis of our internal culture.(wow so safety is not needed while actually driving a bus... just while walking on site yeah high risk activity someon may trip and fall and get their head caught under a bus driving past) Driver Training All Golden Arrow bus drivers receive compulsory training which encompasses both practical and theoretical aspects of the job. During the training course, drivers complete 90 credits of the Professional Driver Skills Programme and/or 122 credits of the full National Certificate in Professional Driving (NCPD) Qualification. All drivers are required to obtain a valid Professional Driving Permit (PrDP) before actively starting their careers with Golden Arrow. Road safety refresher courses are compulsory every two years. Drivers are also counselled in the event of public complaints, inspector reports and accident/incident reportse (ok so how do may sure they're fit to drive a bus? Psych evaluation not mentioned anywhere. The Bus: Every single one of our buses undergoes regular rigorous maintenance. The list below will give you some idea of what goes on behind the scenes in order to keep our buses in tip-top shape:Weekly mechanical, electrical, body and tyre safety checks conducted on all the buses to identify defectsDaily repairs of work identified during weekly safety checksBuses are serviced at 15 000km intervals, which is lower than the 20 000km intervals recommended by the suppliersCertificate of Roadworthiness checks done on 6 monthly intervalsExtensive Fleet renewal – approximately 500new buses added to the fleet since 2003The Central Engineering Division takes responsibility for major overhaul of units such as engines, gearboxes, axles, fuel injector systems and other sub-assemblies as well as major body and auto-electrical repairs. As part of Golden Arrow’s aim to provide a quality service to the public, the Engineering Division has introduced a programme that focuses on the following:Ensuring that all lights are in 100% working conditionReplacing of damaged windowsEnsuring that all windscreen wipers are in working conditionReplacing of damaged body panels and completing required paint workCompleting required electrical work to fix loose electrical wiresFixing all air leaksFixing all oil leaksEnsuring that fuel caps are fitted with rubber seals and not leakingReplacing faulty destination screensReplacing all cut seatsReplacing of damaged floor coveringsReplacing all damaged decalsCompleting required maintenance on buses with excessive exhaust emissions On-Board Camera System The Company has invested heavily in an on-board electronic camera system which is currently fitted to 500 buses in the fleet. This system consists of a device which captures sights and sounds inside and outside of the vehicle. It is triggered by abrupt driving action and records eight seconds before and after such an event. This video clip is automatically downloaded to the supervisor’s personal computer and is then used as a tool to correct faulty driving habits. The system gives an accurate recording in the event of accidents and general incidents which cannot be challenged in any way. Golden Arrow intends to extend this system to all of its vehicles. (So less than half their fleet has these monitoring devices) Hey maybe I'm being harsh but close calls will one day result in the promised accident, and when it happens and nothing follows, then I have grave concerns (pun intended)
Tubehunter Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Whilst I understand your frustration GoLefty and have been on the same end of a similar altercation that came to harsh words with a GA driver who showed no regard for my life, I can't help wondering how your above post aims to open lines of communication with representatives from GA who are monitoring this thread? I think we can all agree that GA may have all the policies they could think of, but out where the rubber hits the road is where the real issues happen. Let's take them at face value and report the misconduct of their drivers in the manner they have requested. Put yourself in their shoes and consider whether you would follow through on these efforts if everyone here picked them apart before we tried their process? Is it too much to ask to put across our concerns in a dignified manner if that's what we're hoping they instill in their drivers??? TiBones 1
Racing Spartan Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 All the best to the family...all must send complaints to complaints@gabs.co.za
GoLefty!! Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 hope hope hope. IF there was desire for action there would be a change in behaviours. There is NO CHANGE IN their driers behaviour. talk tothem all you want. They have no desire or appetite to change.
Icycling Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 My other 2 emails to PPA EXCO (those who I have the email address off). The 2nd indirectly related to this thread. Hi All, On a 2nd issue which was sent out a few weeks ago in the PPA news letter - Champmans Peak. I believe Steve / manfin/ EXCO has had some meeting on this with the operator. I would please ask you guys only to do 1 thing and that is have the operators enforce the current advertised speed limits on the accents for all motor vehicles - think then all issue around cyclist would disappear. We are always to quick to attack cyclist and motorist who are more often than not breaking the law are looked at as the considerate one! Regards Hi All, I am sure most of you are now aware that a cyclist was killed this morning by an GA bus on the St James road. In my opinion this road is an accident waiting to happen. I hope PPA uses some of Lance's idea of making examples of an incident - this one would be a an example where not only the driver of the bus but the City has been negligent and the city should also be taken to task - when building the new road they made they payment wider and the road narrower. Off the top of my head their is a solid white line down the length entire of the road which means by giving a cyclist room (1.5m) a motorist will always break the law. The city has not put any signage up stating no over taking of cyclist or caution while over taking cyclist road is narrow! The speed limit is 40km/h and I would argue to enforce this they should reduce the road to a single lane every say 750m (they do this in Europe) with a cycle lane inside the reduction. This new road has been very poorly designed and the city / city engineers need to take some responsibility - this week scientist in tally have been charged for an earth quake killing people!
Guest Frail4Life Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Rip fellow Cyclist. Prays to the Family and friends. Stay safe out there guys.
Guest Frail4Life Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) double post. Phone Edited October 24, 2012 by F_R_A_I_L
Icycling Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 Guys PPA is meant to be a non profit organization! Not to Hijack this thread and my sincere condolences to this cyclist (it could have been me of that I am100% aware as I use this road in training at least once a week if not every day in some months - it's that close to home) family and friend. Yup I am a road racing cyclist and thus spend many hours on RSA road which are becoming less and less safe (been doing it for 30 years). PPA successfully invest R220 000 into unit trust EVERY month and sits on quite a bit of cash (this should all have been reported at the AGM for those who went). The (treasures) feeling is incase they have a bad year(s) - Cycle Tour does not produce profits then they have fund to carry them over! The reality is they have enough fund now for about 3 years ( assuming zero income - be it from membership or from cycle tour) and membership is only for 1 year (great retirement plan - but should PPA be looking at a retirement plan?)! One of the main reason why I did not stand this year again to be part of the PPA EXCO (served about 17 years on the EXCO) is I don't see any place for PPA in just saving money (now been shifted to a separate trust- should also have been reported at the AGM - I certainly have enough self respect not to sit on a voluntary cycling committee which will now ultimately play 2nd fiddle to an "at arms length" investment trust) which should be used for cycling in all its forms as per the PPA constitution. The final straw for me was when I ask - yup for racing - R50 000 towards the PPA league racing - the cost for having the commissaries at the league event and this was flatly refused - in my time I have seen events like the Giro Del Capo also come to an end! PPA could be spending a lot more on cycling - in all it forms - including road safety / for MTB rider - land access / and even road and racing cycling while still saving a bit of cash for a "rainy day," but they choose or are to afraid to do so! I urge as many PPA member as possible to campaign against this investment stance. By this I am not suggesting reckless spending ( we have a SA president for that at 202 million on a house upgrade / a higher salary than the UK prime minister) but investing in cycling - after all that is what they should be doing! As a racing cyclist as mentioned in my opening statement - I will use the Giro Del Capo again as the example - the wealth The Giro Del Capo offered to the sport of world cycling and the sponsor of the Cape Argus P 'N P cycle tour whey out weight the cost (their are media figures available)! Please remember the current Olympic road champion (Vino) competed in one of the 1st Giro Del Capo and the last Giro Del Capo included the likes of Chris Froome who finished 2nd in this years TDF! An event owned by PPA yet PPA choose not to carry on investing in this event (the 1st Giro del Capo were fully sponsored by PPA) - if this money was been invested in other forms of cycling I could understand - but it is not it is been invested into unit trust! If you agree that PPA should be spending / investing most of its money into cycling (all / any forms) then make yourself heard. What happened yesterday morning is tragic for all cyclist who use SA roads and funds which PPA has could and I argue should be channeled, amongst other thing, to do this - after all please read the the PPA statement on posted by Meezo - page 5 of this thread! The Cape Argus Pick ' n Pay cycle to is the single biggest source if income for PPA - a road cycling event started as a protest ride to bring to the attention that very little was being done by the authorities for cyclists and in particular, their safety! Lucky Luke. 1
Lucky Luke. Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) just to highlight the fact.... My sentiments as well...that route at the moment is not conducive to handle cycclist!! In fact, as far as i know...i saw a sign that prohibited cyclist using that stretch of road....in the opposite direction (if it is where i think it happened)...juts stating facts.... The road is open to cyclists, so what you're stating is crap and has nothing to do with 'facts'. The law states you wait until it is safe to overtake. The eyewitness account we have tells us that this did not happen. I have to ask, what are you hoping to achieve posting this utter nonsense on a cycling forum, when one of our own has just been unlawfully killed by a public service vehicle? Would you like to be next, because that is what we're looking at here if we don't stand together on this, now and in the forseeable future. Golden Arrow is monitoring this thread and when they read your garbage it says 'business as usual' to them. The wheels on the bus go round and round. Edited October 25, 2012 by Lucky Luke. Let's Ride 1
Meezo Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 You guys see this http://www.bicycling.co.za/news-people/news-news-people/urgent-call-for-safer-cycling/
flymango Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 RIP. My prayers go out for the deceased and his/her family, and for the new Hubber who witnessed this tragic accident.
GoLefty!! Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Guys PPA is meant to be a non profit organization! Not to Hijack this thread and my sincere condolences to this cyclist (it could have been me of that I am100% aware as I use this road in training at least once a week if not every day in some months - it's that close to home) family and friend. Yup I am a road racing cyclist and thus spend many hours on RSA road which are becoming less and less safe (been doing it for 30 years). PPA successfully invest R220 000 into unit trust EVERY month and sits on quite a bit of cash (this should all have been reported at the AGM for those who went). The (treasures) feeling is incase they have a bad year(s) - Cycle Tour does not produce profits then they have fund to carry them over! The reality is they have enough fund now for about 3 years ( assuming zero income - be it from membership or from cycle tour) and membership is only for 1 year (great retirement plan - but should PPA be looking at a retirement plan?)! One of the main reason why I did not stand this year again to be part of the PPA EXCO (served about 17 years on the EXCO) is I don't see any place for PPA in just saving money (now been shifted to a separate trust- should also have been reported at the AGM - I certainly have enough self respect not to sit on a voluntary cycling committee which will now ultimately play 2nd fiddle to an "at arms length" investment trust) which should be used for cycling in all its forms as per the PPA constitution. The final straw for me was when I ask - yup for racing - R50 000 towards the PPA league racing - the cost for having the commissaries at the league event and this was flatly refused - in my time I have seen events like the Giro Del Capo also come to an end! PPA could be spending a lot more on cycling - in all it forms - including road safety / for MTB rider - land access / and even road and racing cycling while still saving a bit of cash for a "rainy day," but they choose or are to afraid to do so! I urge as many PPA member as possible to campaign against this investment stance. By this I am not suggesting reckless spending ( we have a SA president for that at 202 million on a house upgrade / a higher salary than the UK prime minister) but investing in cycling - after all that is what they should be doing! As a racing cyclist as mentioned in my opening statement - I will use the Giro Del Capo again as the example - the wealth The Giro Del Capo offered to the sport of world cycling and the sponsor of the Cape Argus P 'N P cycle tour whey out weight the cost (their are media figures available)! Please remember the current Olympic road champion (Vino) competed in one of the 1st Giro Del Capo and the last Giro Del Capo included the likes of Chris Froome who finished 2nd in this years TDF! An event owned by PPA yet PPA choose not to carry on investing in this event (the 1st Giro del Capo were fully sponsored by PPA) - if this money was been invested in other forms of cycling I could understand - but it is not it is been invested into unit trust! If you agree that PPA should be spending / investing most of its money into cycling (all / any forms) then make yourself heard. What happened yesterday morning is tragic for all cyclist who use SA roads and funds which PPA has could and I argue should be channeled, amongst other thing, to do this - after all please read the the PPA statement on posted by Meezo - page 5 of this thread! The Cape Argus Pick ' n Pay cycle to is the single biggest source if income for PPA - a road cycling event started as a protest ride to bring to the attention that very little was being done by the authorities for cyclists and in particular, their safety! Peter, PPA's policy of not being proactive in cycle safety is why I am no longer a member. They focus only on funrides and spending a little money on MTB trails. There is also no strategic direction at PPA. How do you suggest I support your proposal above.
Guest ctMTBer Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Just checked on the GA website and found this. Although Golden Arrow has sophisticated monitoring systems in place, it is not possible to monitor all 1035 buses at all times. Golden Arrow therefore appreciates and follows up on all comments and complaints so that we can, as far as possible, ensure that our drivers are operating according to both the law and company policy. Members of the public are encouraged to direct their comments, queries or complaints to 0800 65 64 63 or complaints@gabs.co.za Golden Arrow investigates all complaints. Drivers who are found to have transgressed traffic laws or to have operated in a manner which is not consistent with company policy are subject to internal disciplinary procedures. Transgressions are taken very seriously and are never condoned or overlooked. Urge ALL of us to send an email to this asking when company policy will be that their drivers respect the vulnerability of cyclists on the road. These clowns are usually the chaps that buzz us the most. Have had more than my share of run ins with this crew! They are talking BS. I reported many busses driving in the cycle lane on Plattekloof. Stopping where there is no bus stop. They laughed at me. I reported that the busses stop on the left at the hospital where there is no bus stop and then cross the solid lines to turn right and nothing was done. In the I reported it it Brett Herron and Hellen Zille and the final outcome was that bus stop signs was put up and now the busses still do exactly that. I sent photos of busses DRIVING in the cycle lane. I sent emails to the traffic department even chatted to a traffic cop there one morning who were doing speed trapping only to be told by him that it is not for him to police the busses. I sent an email asking if it is going to take a death before GABS does something and was ignored. Let's Ride and GoLefty!! 2
'Dale Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 @icycling Re PPA investment stance Can you open a separate thread that can engage the issue?It's an important topic. :-) GoLefty!! 1
dirtrider Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Corporates don't understand touchy feely stuff, especially a transport operator. Does a fatality like this affect their scorecard, share pricing or bottom line? Most likely not! They either make money or they don't and we get in the way so we forfeit our rights to life in their minds by enjoying a simple pass time.Provincial Government and our representing bodies are too busy trying to tickle each other under the table to do anything meaningful. If they realy wanted to take an interest in safety they would be making a concerted effort not just printing bumper stickers.... Effort is hitting these transporter were it hurts, in their pocket. GA must still have shareholders and a board. That board needs to be taken to task. But heres where we, the cycling community is so naive, we 're children really but I can't understand how we function at work.. Heres their "social responsibility blurb": CORPORATE SOCIAL INVESTMENT: FROM THE GOLDEN ARROW FOUNDATION TO THE HCI FOUNDATION The Golden Arrow Foundation (GAF) was founded in 1993 as a way to give back to the communities served by Golden Arrow’s scheduled bus services. Having always taken great pride in community involvement the donation of 50% of the Company’s shares as a capital base for the newly formed foundation was merely the formalisation and extension of many years of philanthropic involvement. Following the acquisition of Golden Arrow Bus Services by Hosken Consolidated Investments (HCI) the Golden Arrow Foundation was incorporated into the HCI Foundation. Since then the Foundation has continued to provide financial support to a number of community initiatives across a wide-spectrum including education and early childhood development, health and welfare and social development. The last seven years have seen Golden Arrow’s Community Transport Support Project touch the lives of thousands of people across the peninsula. This specific project falls under the auspices of the HCI Foundation and functions as a partnership between the Foundation, Golden Arrow Bus Services, and the projects which deliver a variety of educational and recreational programmes to various communities. These programmes range from providing an opportunity for children from underprivileged communities to enjoy and participate in performing arts, heritage, sport and educational excursions; to providing visual arts lessons for teachers and children as well as extra maths and science lessons for school learners. The programme has proved so successful that it was awarded the 2009 BASA award in the Sponsorship in Kind category. Golden Arrow’s Company Social Investment (CSI) efforts were also recognised by the National Department of Social Development and the CSI Registrar as being a “Level 3 Gold Contributor”. The certificate of recognition “commends and honours Golden Arrow for the continued compassion and generosity demonstrated in assisting those least fortunate of Our Nation”. Their Best operating practice promise: Best Operating Practice Sophisticated operating systems which have evolved with time and been refined to a high level of detail have been the backbone of the Company’s management and control over the last 150 years. The Company boasts best practice systems in the areas of ticketing, scheduling, cash management, operations monitoring and wireless communication. Not a single mention of safety, responsible citizenship And their driver training Driver Training Road Safety and Driver Behaviour Golden Arrow’s mission is to operate safe, reliable transport services designed to meet the needs of its customers.(So screw other road users) The Company’s safety interventions are primarily focused on the driver, the bus and vigilant compliance with all regulations pertaining to road safety and traffic management.(Which is why we witness GA Buses racing around pavement hogging and berating other road users with threats of bodily harm) This holistic approach to road safety makes it possible for Golden Arrow to ensure that each and every employee is aware of the critical role that he/she plays in maintaining GABS’ sterling safety record . Below are some of the key safety interventions: Poster Campaign Golden Arrow, recognising the need for an inclusive programme, designed its safety campaign so that staff would not only be reminded of the vital importance of safety during training and meetings but that it would be present everywhere, every day. To this end a company wide campaign consisting of strategically located posters has been implemented. The posters display messages that reinforce the roles and responsibilities of each and every driver and ensures that road safety forms the basis of our internal culture.(wow so safety is not needed while actually driving a bus... just while walking on site yeah high risk activity someon may trip and fall and get their head caught under a bus driving past) Driver Training All Golden Arrow bus drivers receive compulsory training which encompasses both practical and theoretical aspects of the job. During the training course, drivers complete 90 credits of the Professional Driver Skills Programme and/or 122 credits of the full National Certificate in Professional Driving (NCPD) Qualification. All drivers are required to obtain a valid Professional Driving Permit (PrDP) before actively starting their careers with Golden Arrow. Road safety refresher courses are compulsory every two years. Drivers are also counselled in the event of public complaints, inspector reports and accident/incident reportse (ok so how do may sure they're fit to drive a bus? Psych evaluation not mentioned anywhere. The Bus: Every single one of our buses undergoes regular rigorous maintenance. The list below will give you some idea of what goes on behind the scenes in order to keep our buses in tip-top shape:Weekly mechanical, electrical, body and tyre safety checks conducted on all the buses to identify defectsDaily repairs of work identified during weekly safety checksBuses are serviced at 15 000km intervals, which is lower than the 20 000km intervals recommended by the suppliersCertificate of Roadworthiness checks done on 6 monthly intervalsExtensive Fleet renewal – approximately 500new buses added to the fleet since 2003The Central Engineering Division takes responsibility for major overhaul of units such as engines, gearboxes, axles, fuel injector systems and other sub-assemblies as well as major body and auto-electrical repairs. As part of Golden Arrow’s aim to provide a quality service to the public, the Engineering Division has introduced a programme that focuses on the following:Ensuring that all lights are in 100% working conditionReplacing of damaged windowsEnsuring that all windscreen wipers are in working conditionReplacing of damaged body panels and completing required paint workCompleting required electrical work to fix loose electrical wiresFixing all air leaksFixing all oil leaksEnsuring that fuel caps are fitted with rubber seals and not leakingReplacing faulty destination screensReplacing all cut seatsReplacing of damaged floor coveringsReplacing all damaged decalsCompleting required maintenance on buses with excessive exhaust emissionsOn-Board Camera System The Company has invested heavily in an on-board electronic camera system which is currently fitted to 500 buses in the fleet. This system consists of a device which captures sights and sounds inside and outside of the vehicle. It is triggered by abrupt driving action and records eight seconds before and after such an event. This video clip is automatically downloaded to the supervisor’s personal computer and is then used as a tool to correct faulty driving habits. The system gives an accurate recording in the event of accidents and general incidents which cannot be challenged in any way. Golden Arrow intends to extend this system to all of its vehicles. (So less than half their fleet has these monitoring devices) Hey maybe I'm being harsh but close calls will one day result in the promised accident, and when it happens and nothing follows, then I have grave concerns (pun intended) Not true Lefty but I am not going to get involved in this as it is a very sensitive issue and also very emotional . All our vehicles got drivecam installed but that does not stop accidents from happening .
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