Bianchisti Posted June 7, 2014 Posted June 7, 2014 779 TSS / 0.896 IF Missing one weekend ride which will have made it a big week in anticipation of work putting a spanner in the mix next week.
IdeJongh Posted June 8, 2014 Posted June 8, 2014 606 TSS / IF 0.77 Short intervals in the week, with a big ride on Saturday and short spin in the cradle today. Legs felt it today!
andydude Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I'm new to TSS and IF and all that, but I'm quite interested in the topic. I still have to read through all the posts in this thread, but I registered for the free 7-day period on Training Peaks today to test it out. I don't have a power meter, but I see they still calculate a TSS and IF, but based on my heart rate. I've only loaded my four 2014 Panorama stages thus far and below are the results with headings: stage number, distance, time, elevation gain, hrTSS and IF. Stage 1 | 106km | 3:08 | 2530m | 306 | 0.93Stage 2 | 85km | 2:22 | 1583m | 224 | 0.92Stage 3 | 114km | 3:20 | 2830m | 248 | 0.81Stage 4 | 38km | 1:03 | 697m | 113 | 0.98 (2 man TT) I don't really know how this should compare therefore I assume I have to load other races and training rides too. EDIT: I see I chopped off over Spitskop and Long Tom on stage 3!
Jakkals. Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 I'm new to TSS and IF and all that, but I'm quite interested in the topic. I still have to read through all the posts in this thread, but I registered for the free 7-day period on Training Peaks today to test it out. I don't have a power meter, but I see they still calculate a TSS and IF, but based on my heart rate. I've only loaded my four 2014 Panorama stages thus far and below are the results with headings: stage number, distance, time, elevation gain, hrTSS and IF. Stage 1 | 106km | 3:08 | 2530m | 306 | 0.93Stage 2 | 85km | 2:22 | 1583m | 224 | 0.92Stage 3 | 114km | 3:20 | 2830m | 248 | 0.81Stage 4 | 38km | 1:03 | 697m | 113 | 0.98 (2 man TT) I don't really know how this should compare therefore I assume I have to load other races and training rides too. EDIT: I see I chopped off over Spitskop and Long Tom on stage 3! Cool, welcome. over here we are a lot friendlier. Remember that HR TSS arent quite as accurate, but at least, you will have a number to work with to measure your TSB. send me a pm with your email address, I will forward you an excel spreadsheet where you could put in TSS and IF, which it then will calculate your CTL, ATL and TSB graphically. Remember that you need to have an accurate heart rate threshold, training peaks would normally email this to you once it changes. If this is accurate in training peaks, your hrTSS will also be more accurate.
andydude Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Cool, welcome. over here we are a lot friendlier. Remember that HR TSS arent quite as accurate, but at least, you will have a number to work with to measure your TSB. send me a pm with your email address, I will forward you an excel spreadsheet where you could put in TSS and IF, which it then will calculate your CTL, ATL and TSB graphically. Remember that you need to have an accurate heart rate threshold, training peaks would normally email this to you once it changes. If this is accurate in training peaks, your hrTSS will also be more accurate. Thanks for the help, Anton. PM sent! What software do you use?
andydude Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Remember that you need to have an accurate heart rate threshold, training peaks would normally email this to you once it changes. If this is accurate in training peaks, your hrTSS will also be more accurate. When I loaded the Panorama files I did receive an email stating "Congratulations, you recently set a new threshold heart rate value. We recommend you update your zones in TrainingPeaks for optimal analysis." but I'm not sure if I should use it, because they just took the highest average heart rate over one hour during the race, which of course have ups and downs. I thought you should try to do a well paced one hour ride?
Eugene Oppelt Posted June 10, 2014 Posted June 10, 2014 Last week was an easy week TSS 342 / IF 0,843I needed that. Maybe this week as well with some cross-training - swimming and gym bits.
Jakkals. Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 When I loaded the Panorama files I did receive an email stating "Congratulations, you recently set a new threshold heart rate value. We recommend you update your zones in TrainingPeaks for optimal analysis." but I'm not sure if I should use it, because they just took the highest average heart rate over one hour during the race, which of course have ups and downs. I thought you should try to do a well paced one hour ride? If I were you, I would use it. its a benchmark and you would see that your TSS will change accordingly going forward.
IdeJongh Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 What's interesting, I was playing around with the formulas, sitting at around 60 CTL at the moment, if I do 430 TSS a week, I don't actually improve 'fitness' at all, as I need >450TSS a week to gain fitness. Sure this might not consider the intricacies of endurance / power level, but should average out over the long run. Then following from the discussion around XCO riders (Burry as the prime example), higher intensity training over longer periods of time (whilst keeping ATL in check) should provide bigger gains than typical endurance riding. I'm considering a nuanced focal shift here rather than a change of paradigm. Thoughts?
Jakkals. Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 What's interesting, I was playing around with the formulas, sitting at around 60 CTL at the moment, if I do 430 TSS a week, I don't actually improve 'fitness' at all, as I need >450TSS a week to gain fitness. Sure this might not consider the intricacies of endurance / power level, but should average out over the long run. Then following from the discussion around XCO riders (Burry as the prime example), higher intensity training over longer periods of time (whilst keeping ATL in check) should provide bigger gains than typical endurance riding. I'm considering a nuanced focal shift here rather than a change of paradigm. Thoughts? What you put in, is what you get out..... If you know you've got an 70.3 coming up, its useless spending time riding shorter intervals, well not useless, but you wont really improve much on your TT ability. So what you put in, will be what you'll get out. I rode Hell hath no fury, TSS=100 IF=0.92, great workout for race simulation, but I find it hard to ride on my specific watts given by the sufferfest RPE #, so I just focus a bit more on the cadence given and ride as hard as I can. Any thoughts?
andydude Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 If you know you've got an 70.3 coming up, its useless spending time riding shorter intervals, well not useless, but you wont really improve much on your TT ability. I know there's some interesting research doing the rounds showing that you don't need to to long rides for long races and you can probably do short, but hard intervals for the same gain. The caveat is of course if you have limited time. The general consensus out there still seems to be that if you're a road racing pro you need those long steady rides in the off season to improve your engine.
IdeJongh Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 What you put in, is what you get out..... If you know you've got an 70.3 coming up, its useless spending time riding shorter intervals, well not useless, but you wont really improve much on your TT ability. So what you put in, will be what you'll get out. I rode Hell hath no fury, TSS=100 IF=0.92, great workout for race simulation, but I find it hard to ride on my specific watts given by the sufferfest RPE #, so I just focus a bit more on the cadence given and ride as hard as I can. Any thoughts? Sure, comes back to the old Friel principal, your training should over time become more like your race. But say beginning of your periodisation cycle, in theory, a 3hr ride at 210w give me 8% more TSS than a 4hr ride at 175w. So 'in theory' instead of doing many 4hr+ rides beginning of the season, mixing them up with 3hr harder rides would ensure a trajectory towards a higher CTL level closer to A race. Then closer to race time I extend some of my training rides closer to the estimated race time to ensure conditioning. Again, I don't propose doing balls to the wall 1h30 rides and then entering epic, but I've always focused on long ass base rides beginning of the season and I wonder if there is not perhaps an alternative (especially in winter).
Jakkals. Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I know there's some interesting research doing the rounds showing that you don't need to to long rides for long races and you can probably do short, but hard intervals for the same gain. The caveat is of course if you have limited time. The general consensus out there still seems to be that if you're a road racing pro you need those long steady rides in the off season to improve your engine. The endurance miles are basically for adaption...the work that has been put in before/earlier. Off season yes, but you also needs lotsa rest.
Jakkals. Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Sure, comes back to the old Friel principal, your training should over time become more like your race. But say beginning of your periodisation cycle, in theory, a 3hr ride at 210w give me 8% more TSS than a 4hr ride at 175w. So 'in theory' instead of doing many 4hr+ rides beginning of the season, mixing them up with 3hr harder rides would ensure a trajectory towards a higher CTL level closer to A race. Then closer to race time I extend some of my training rides closer to the estimated race time to ensure conditioning. Again, I don't propose doing balls to the wall 1h30 rides and then entering epic, but I've always focused on long ass base rides beginning of the season and I wonder if there is not perhaps an alternative (especially in winter). Jip, I've said it just yesterday, I'll rather go ride 3.5hours on a 100km ride than doing 4.5/5hours, time wasting.But then again, you would need more rest and although your TSB might not indicate that you need to too, you still need to listen to your body. (thats where I've been going wrong) So at then end of the day, its still a easier to recover from the 1h/1.5hr ride during the week then recovering from a 300TSS ride on a saturday.
Jakkals. Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 I know there's some interesting research doing the rounds showing that you don't need to to long rides for long races and you can probably do short, but hard intervals for the same gain. The caveat is of course if you have limited time. The general consensus out there still seems to be that if you're a road racing pro you need those long steady rides in the off season to improve your engine. Not meant to say that you have to do 90km TT rides, just a bit more training at threshold, ie 3 x 20min or 2 x 30min in your training.
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