A Sub 3 Argus?

[usxorf]

And 5 sec peak and 1 and 5 min peak powers? I assume these numbers come from your 2:58, and they are in line with what I pretty much expect during the ride - I am surprised there is not a bigger difference between Average and NP.

 

Numbers are from the argus, yes. Here's the 1min,5min,etc.

 

[V12man]

We talking amongst our selfs here (mostly ) argus is more a fun ride than a INTERNATIONAL PRO RIDERS RACE yes there are a few pro riders but its not like all the pro teams pull in here to do the race, this is more a race for the masses, so when you look at who the race is accommodating then yes sub 3 is a great time to aim for, % wise

 

Sub 3 is a great time to shoot for if you are a recreational rider - but comparative power numbers are really only available for categorised international riders and pro's - so we need to keep in mind what is really possible on that route by the REAL Elite - before we get ahead of ourselves and think we are better than we really are - that's the thinking that affects our local pro teams too much I think - they don't aim high enough in performance terms, and there are plenty of European club teams that will give them a solid run for their money.

 

So I don't think he is being contradictory at all - just pointing out that 3:00 is not really a great time... ESPECIALLY NOT if you are a pro or someone who thinks they can be a pro.

 

Of course I wish the Argus was an International Pro 1 day event... we can only dream....

[Meezo]

YEAR | # SUB 3 FINISHERS | GROUP THAT MADE IT | SEEDING INDEX

2005 | 240 | Group A | 14.6%

2006 | 800 | Group F | 16.8%

2007 | 1,300 | Group G | 18.4%

2008 | 1,700 | Group I | 22.4%

2009 | 150 | Only Elites | 10.8%

2010 | 130 | Only Elites | 12.5%

2011 | 1,000 | Group F | 18.4%

2012 | 570 | Group C | 15.3%

2013 | 450 | Group B | 12.5%

 

I imagine weather plays the greatest role on the day. This year the weather was pretty good and only 450 made it.

2007/8 must have been proper tail winds.

 

Average seeding required of 15.7% for Argus, of which would have been a time of 2hr 30min for 94.7 last year.

 

Nice stat, must say tho. The weather wasn't all that great! There was some times of wind. Also what you need you factor in is that this year there was no Boyes Drive but, according to the above table, the 2nd lowest percentage of Sub 3's!

 

I also think, the A bunch has the potential to put down a faster time than all the other groups, maybe even the Elites. Haven't ridden there but from what I've heard up front its about racing and position, in the groups its all about the time.... IMO

[Bianchisti]

That is on the cusp between a cat 3 and a cat 4 racer - categorised racers are not your average run of the mill weekend warriors....

 

I posted test results in another thread of a youngster with a well tested FTP of close to 3.2 w/kg - and he has gone sub 3 fairly easily - he is 3.19w/kg in a 1 hour test.

 

Here you go.

 

 

Saw that test in the other thread but the resolution on the image is too small to read it. These numbers sounds so ordinary. Easy to put one under all sorts of illusions as to the difficulty of going under 3 hours. But I think we’re talking different numbers actually. 4.3 w/kg (when quoted to me by a veteran of the sport, and now coach/trainer) was where OBLA needed to be for a sub-3.

 

My OBLA was at 2.7 W/kg about 11 months ago. I’ve increased my PO and lost weight since but only have the 20 minute FTP test to go by right now. Do these differ? And how?

[V12man]

Numbers are from the argus, yes. Here's the 1min,5min,etc.

 

 

Thanks - that's interesting - just out of curiosity - what is your tested 20min or 1 hour FTP

[Spinnekop]

Sub 3 is a great time to shoot for if you are a recreational rider - but comparative power numbers are really only available for categorised international riders and pro's - so we need to keep in mind what is really possible on that route by the REAL Elite - before we get ahead of ourselves and think we are better than we really are - that's the thinking that affects our local pro teams too much I think - they don't aim high enough in performance terms, and there are plenty of European club teams that will give them a solid run for their money.

 

So I don't think he is being contradictory at all - just pointing out that 3:00 is not really a great time... ESPECIALLY NOT if you are a pro or someone who thinks they can be a pro.

 

Riding with the $ groups in the old days the aim was always 2:30. that was fast.

Never got to do that.....hehehehhehe

[V12man]

Saw that test in the other thread but the resolution on the image is too small to read it. These numbers sounds so ordinary. Easy to put one under all sorts of illusions as to the difficulty of going under 3 hours. But I think we’re talking different numbers actually. 4.3 w/kg (when quoted to me by a veteran of the sport, and now coach/trainer) was where OBLA needed to be for a sub-3.

 

My OBLA was at 2.7 W/kg about 11 months ago. I’ve increased my PO and lost weight since but only have the 20 minute FTP test to go by right now. Do these differ? And how?

 

If you save the image you should be able to enlarge it with a picture viewer.

 

OBLA is the onset of blood lactate accumulation - so that is the power at which your clearance of blood lactate is slower than the rate of lactate entering the blood stream (and is supposed to be analogous to rate of intramuscular lactate production) and it's really a marker of when your anaerobic energy systems start to take precedence in power output - personally it's not a measure I use, because it is very variable on your training state and conditioning to work at those levels.

 

VO2 max is another measure I am not a big believer in as a direct indicator of performance (and that is a LONG discussion)

 

Personally I am a believer in performance predicting performance - so really building a chart like the one you can't read yet, and building a power profile and making specific interventions to address (relatively) weak points seems to be a better indicator of performance potential - and without on the bike skills, pacing skills, race tactics and judgement it will just stay genetic potential.

 

Let me give you an example - I am well acquainted with a certain vet who has all the physical attributes, and all the determination needed to win races (in no uncertain terms) BUT he is not the smartest racer - so he ALWAYS chases down EVERY break, generally tries to make a break far too early in a race, kills himself to stay out front, and then gets hauled back into the bunch, but has nothing left for the end at the line - if he was a smarter racer, he would have won lots of road races... now he rides MTB's pretty successfully in his age cat....

[ahmedbadat]

il be happy with 3 hours. that's 3 hours longer than the pros times.

[DBK]

You basically just have to go out and do it.

 

I started cycling 3 years ago, had 3:12 in my first Argus, and 2:53 last year.

 

No secrets other than grit your teeth and turn the pedals.

Edited October 8, 2013 by DBK

[V12man]

You basically just have to go out and do it.

 

I started cycling 3 years ago, had 3:12 in my first Argus, and 2:53 last year.

 

No secrets other than grit your teeth and turn the pedals.

 

You forgot the 1 secret... pick your parents carefully... that works for sure...

[Wannabe]

At age 48 my latest tested results are: W/Kg @CP = 3.65, 20 min w/kg = 2.74, V02 Max = 54.13. And I've never been close to a sub 3 Argus (closest was 3:07:33 in 2008)

 

Done 94.7 in best of 2:52:07, Lost City in 2:47:46, Hyper to Hyper (Fast One) in 2:30:18, etc .All in 2008/2009.

Best chance for Sub 3 for me was in 2009 (when I did the times as listed above), then the WIND decided it was not to be, and I ended up with a 3:32:13 from F group (my best seeding to date). Experts say if it was not for the wind, my time COULD have been as low as 2:50:00. As can be seen, previous race results does not easily translates to a Sub 3 Argus.

[usxorf]

Thanks - that's interesting - just out of curiosity - what is your tested 20min or 1 hour FTP

 

I use MAP to estimate ftp, it was about 295W around argus time.

[V12man]

I use MAP to estimate ftp, it was about 295W around argus time.

 

Interesting - That is 3.8w/kg - a bit more than my 3.4 minimum WAG.

 

I have no idea how using MAP to derive FTP compares in real life against a 20 minute steady state test on a trainer - there has to be some variability - but the question is exactly how much and which way does it go, and that has to be pretty individualised............ How about doing a trainer based test for us? I can send you a Garmin workout if that helps convince you...

 

For the uninitiated FTP derived from MAP is defined as 75% of the 1 minute maximal power achieved during an incremental test to exhaustion - there is a protocol for the test you can follow on the road or on a trainer - I don't have it as a Garmin workout, but if someone wants it I could build it - although you have to pick a starting power to use based on your racing category..

 

It is one of the tests available on a wattbike, and that or a trainer based test would be easier to execute in a safe way than trying on the road... looking at a power meter when riding on the road is FUNDAMENTALLY dangerous...

[DIPSLICK]

ALL THESE TECHNICAL DETAILS,,,,,ALL I WANT TO DO IS RIDE MY BIKE :whistling: AND GET A SUB 3

[Dubber]

At age 48 my latest tested results are: W/Kg @CP = 3.65, 20 min w/kg = 2.74, V02 Max = 54.13. And I've never been close to a sub 3 Argus (closest was 3:07:33 in 2008)

 

Anybody on here (or know of) broken the sub 3 barrier for the first time when being 40 years of age plus?

I'm sure there are a bunch of guys that continue to break sub 3 after they turn 40. I'm just wondering if it is possible to do it for the first time after you are 40. (I'm sure it's possible but would like to hear the story behind it if anyone one hear has done it).

[usxorf]

I found 72% of MAP is roughly 95% of 20min power, in my case, and MAP a better performance measure than 20min. MAP being all-out to failure whereas the 20min has always been plagued by pacing issues (start out too hard or too easy). 72% because of a higher anaerobic than aerobic capacity.