LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Cuppa Bru]

Topwine, please share your knowledge. You seem to have a lot to contribute.

Just remember to keep nasty comments about speedy deaths for all LCers to yourself .

 

 

There was a discussion between Tim Noakes and Jacques E Rossouw at UCT where Prof Rossouw cited a study purportedly showing that LCHF was no better than a high carb diet in weightloss.

Noakes seemed to disagree with Rossouw's on the study and I would like to know what study that was and why there was such a difference in opinion.

Gary Taubes mentioned a study that compared LCHF (sorry DaleE) and high carb that would support Rossouw's opinion, with a glaring omission pointed out by Taubes: High carbers were calorie restricted while LCHFers were not.

 

Be cool to know!

 

Guys, anyone have more info on the latest in LCHF research? I remember reading that there were studies, but the results would only be out earliest end of this year. Can't wait that long!

 

 

Edit: LCHF opponent's name was Jacques E Rossouw. Not Jacque Rosseau. Fixed.

Edited October 22, 2013 by schweinehund

[jcza]

Topwine, please share your knowledge. You seem to have a lot to contribute.

Just remember to keep nasty comments about speedy deaths for all LCers to yourself .

 

 

There was a discussion between Tim Noakes and Jacque Rosseau at UCT where Prof Rosseau cited a study purportedly showing that LCHF was no better than a high carb diet in weightloss.

Noakes seemed to disagree with Rosseau's on the study and I would like to know what study that was and why there was such a difference in opinion.

Gary Taubes mentioned a study that compared LCHF (sorry DaleE) and high carb that would support Rosseau's opinion, with a glaring omission pointed out by Taubes: High carbers were calorie restricted while LCHFers were not.

 

Be cool to know!

 

Guys, anyone have more info on the latest in LCHF research? I remember reading that there were studies, but the results would only be out earliest end of this year. Can't wait that long!

 

Link to debate (with slides)

 

http://www.health.uct.ac.za/centenary/past_events/centenary_debate/

[Helpmytrap]

guys please give me some advice:

 

i am in my second week of LCHF and all is okay but i am really worried about fuelling on the bike, i have no idea what breakfast to have pre race, what to use on the bike and after, i had my first LCHF rides last weekend and i am feeling sluggish as hell! i am really worried that if i go long distances i am going to bonk if i dont take in Carbs, my normal routine pre LCHF was oats for breakfast, Cytogen and water on the bike with race food or 32GI food bars and gels for the end of the ride if required.

 

can somebody with experience please give me some feedback on your fuelling

Just don't make the mistake I did, eat carbs in that 45-60min window post exercise!!! You need it especially if it was a high intensity workout. Peter Attia would eat up to 100g carbohydrates after a 6hr ride at an intensity well below VO2Max, ie rides in the fat burning zone. He would eat that amount of carbs without falling out of ketosis purely because it was in that recovery window post exercise. This has to do with the GLUT-4 stuff @davetapson posted on a few pages back.

 

Carbs play a vital role in one's diet and body, one needs to understand that. Because you are now on the LCHF journey you need to make the correct and smart choice of WHICH carbs to eat and WHEN. LC doesn't mean villainize carbs. I assume you are eating <50g CHO a day?

Carbo load on butternut and sweet potato the night before a race if you feel you need to. NO wheat or anything derived from wheat, so no pasta, bread etc.

Eat veggies that grow above the ground in normal circumstances.

Eat veggies that grow below the ground post exercise as well as butternut and sweet potato to help replenish your glycogen stores. So higher carb food items.

Eat lots of salad, if you don't enjoy salad, find ways to dress it up to make it interesting (grated hard cheese, moderate amounts of peppers and spring/salad onions, salt, pepper, a little fresh lemon juice and lots of olive oil.)

And don't be scared to eat stuff on the bike, when in the adaptation stage it might slow down your bodies learning process of using ketones as fuel but it will not hinder the process.

[Face Plant]

Thanks for the info Helpmytrap, i am on <50g CHO, i would like to try a bowl of oats in the morning and then take some cytogen on the bike with some racefuel and i will be happy, i have read that rolled oats is better than normal oats but i will have to investigate the benefits of using different types and maybe add butter to increase the fat level, one thing that i have picked up is alot of you are referring to this as being a journey so i am going to see it as just that and maybe try different routes till i find the right one.

 

to be totally honest, the best senario for me would be to live LCHF, ride with carbs, have a boerie roll and a couple of beers after the race and then revert back to LCHF but ja i guess we cant have the best of both worlds

Edited October 22, 2013 by Face Plant

[Helpmytrap]

Ketosis is a very slippery slope, so unfortunately eating a bowl of oats in the morning, before exercise WILL take you ten steps back. Your aim is to reduce carbs so that you reduce the amount and level of insulin spikes in your body. Insulin and ketones are inversely proportional. So rather save the oats for after the ride.

For breakfast rather have protein and fat. JCZA races with carbs BUT he eats eggs and bacon for breakfast and avoids carbs before racing.

 

I was reading on Mark's Daily Apple earlier today about oats, more specifically rolled oats. I was researching because Oats are a grain and people that are Pro fat say that grains have no place in a humans diet. Mark Sisson wrote that many people had written in asking for his opinion on the matter. He said that as far as grains go, oats are better (read: less bad) compared to wheat. The problem is that oats contain phytic acid,

"As far as phytic acid (or phytate) goes, oats contain less than corn and brown rice but about the same amount as wheat. Phytate has the tendency to bind minerals and prevent their absorption. So, even if a grain is rich in minerals, the presence of phytate prevents their full absorption. Ingestion is not absorption, remember."

So that is one of the problems with grains, it prevents the absorption of minerals. He did say that fermented oats are better than wheat but rice still comes out on top of the grains list.

 

Link: http://www.marksdail...e-oats-healthy/

 

edit: I said oats earlier instead of wheat.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Helpmytrap

[HappyMartin]

A odd question on fats. I don't really like fatty stuff and don't like coconut other than fresh. Bought coconut oil on advice on this forum.

 

Now I find I eat a tablespoon in the morning out of the jar. To my amazement I love the stuff.

 

Anyone else pick up this weird habit?

[tombeej]

A odd question on fats. I don't really like fatty stuff and don't like coconut other than fresh. Bought coconut oil on advice on this forum.

 

Now I find I eat a tablespoon in the morning out of the jar. To my amazement I love the stuff.

 

Anyone else pick up this weird habit?

 

All the time.

 

Coconut oil is the king of all plant oils, especially for athletes. No better natural source of awesome MCT oil. I love a large tablespoon of it straight out of the blik.

 

Second best is macadamia nut oil/butter.

 

Third probably goes to almond oil/butter.

 

A distant joint fourth place arguably goes to olive and avo oil (with respect to people posting on this thread that you should eat lots of this stuff, both of these oils have around 10% PUFAs, so really should only be taken in careful moderation).

 

 

For me, the all-time best LCHF endurance food (besides pemmican) is homemade macnut butter with coconut oil. The top two plant oils together in one 'super food'.

Edited October 23, 2013 by tombeej

[tombeej]

Happy, one thing you probably picked up from taking a dollop of coconut oil is that it can take away hunger pangs like nothing else.

 

Lauric acid (a key medium chain triglyceride) is the wonder ingredient in that respect.

 

First, we need to understand how different MCTs are compared to any other member of the triglyceride family.

 

MCTs can be absorbed directly from the gut (i.e. doesn't even go as far as your small intestine), straight to the liver, and from there be readily converted into ketone bodies and used for energy rather than for fat storage.

 

People who use ketostix can see this in action for themselves. First take a reading and let's say the result it 'trace'. Then take a dollop of coconut oil and pretty soon afterwards watch your reading go deep purple. All because MCT oils have this unique ability to produce a lot of ketone bodies to burn readily as energy and not end up being stored as fat.

 

Besides that benefit, research done on coconut oil shows how lauric acid both suppresses energy intake (reduces hunger) and in improves energy utilization.

 

Here's another article along the same lines: 'Almost magical……coconut oil'.

[Topwine]

A odd question on fats. I don't really like fatty stuff and don't like coconut other than fresh. Bought coconut oil on advice on this forum.

 

Now I find I eat a tablespoon in the morning out of the jar. To my amazement I love the stuff.

 

Anyone else pick up this weird habit?

 

Never liked the taste of coconut. Now we put coconut oil in everything. It grows on you !

 

Another good oil is palm kernel oil .

Coconut oil is made from the coconut kernel .

Edited October 23, 2013 by Topwine

[Topwine]

One of the major consequences of a VLCD is significant higher adrenaline and cortisol production. Cortisol is a major stress hormone and leads to rapid aging and other negative issues.

 

Cortisol also tends to lead to belly fat.

More about the relationship about cortisol and body/belly fat here, http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2010/09/01/quick-hits-belly-fat-hormones-and-stress/

 

In short, a VLC diet leads to a stressfull bodystate, which is very unhealthy longterm and leads to accelerated aging and heart disease and damage.

[Topwine]

Blood sugar balance using protective and digestible food choices is a fundamental of good nutrition practices. While some will argue that we don’t need to eat carbohydrate because our body can make carbohydrate from itself, that side of the fence is looking at physiology through a pin hole and misses the big picture. Ample carbohydrate particularly from ripe fruits, orange juice, milk, honey, and sucrose keeps the alarm state and vicious inflammatory cycles at bay.

The body uses its own tissues to make glucose during hypoglycemia because glucose is important in maintaining optimal function. Without enough dietary carbohydrate, the body becomes dependent on stress hormones for glucose. For optimal health, sustain blood sugar with food, not stress hormones.

 

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/11/16/low-blood-sugar-basics/

[Topwine]

LC = Death to Metabolism

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2010/12/12/low-carb-diet-death-to-metabolism/

 

“Low carb” is a nutritional buzz word and talks about avoiding sugar because “it’s the devil” are commonly echoed ad nauseam among both lay persons and health professionals. But does this approach having any sound backing to it when it comes to supporting health and metabolism?

 

Long-term effects of a low carb lifestyle

Low carb dieting appears to be a good strategy to spur fat loss and lower scale weight in the short term. However, the plan’s short-term fat loss comes at the expense of suppressing the resting metabolism long term, destroying our own tissues, depleting glycogen, burdening the liver, and stressing every cell in the body. The effects of chronically high adrenaline and cortisol used to support both lipolysis and gluconeogenesis are widespread.

[Topwine]

Many people regularly posts their blood glucose readings and it seems the lower the better is the popular opinion. I have not seen any studies what an optimum BG level is, but what I have read is that lower BG levels is detrimental to health and development, especially in the fetus and children. Giving something sweet, like sugar or sweet tea to raise BG have always been given to people in shock. Wonder why ? It must work .

 

Interestingly, low BG seems to cause a higher susceptibility to allergies as well.

http://www.functiona...ergy-and-shock/

 

Hypoglycemia (which can result from any respiratory defect) can produce malfunction of any tissue, but brain dysfunction and immune dysfunction are very common effects. Adamkiewicz has shown that allergic reactions to a given substance will decrease from 100 percent to zero, when the blood glucose increases from, for example, 50 mg. to 150 mg. or more.” -Ray Peat, PhD

 

‎”…Blood sugar is usually the thing to pay most attention to, everything becomes an allergen if the glucose is chronically low. Thyroid is the main thing that stabilizes the blood sugar. Aspirin usually helps with allergies…” -Ray Peat, PhD

 

AJP – Legacy Content January 1960 vol. 198 no. 1 51-53

Glucose and the dextran ‘anaphylactoid’ inflammation

V. W. Adamkiewicz and Lidia M. Adamkiewicz

 

The Journal of Immunology January 1, 1964 vol. 92 no. 1 3-7

Glycemic States and the Horse-Serum and Egg-White Anaphylactic Shock in Rats1

V. W. Adamkiewicz, P. J. Sacra and J. Ventura

 

Br. J. Pharmac. Chemother. (1967), 31, 351-355.

THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE BLOOD SUGAR LEVEL TO THE SEVERITY OF ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

H. L. DHAR, R. K. SANYAL AND G. B. WEST*

Edited October 23, 2013 by Topwine

[jcza]

A odd question on fats. I don't really like fatty stuff and don't like coconut other than fresh. Bought coconut oil on advice on this forum.

 

Now I find I eat a tablespoon in the morning out of the jar. To my amazement I love the stuff.

 

Anyone else pick up this weird habit?

 

Also got used to it but I try alternate between coconut & butter & cream.

[P.A.K.]

I need to find a place to buy macademias. They're so expensive

[Helpmytrap]

I need to find a place to buy macademias. They're so expensive

If I'm not mistaken, didn't HappyMartin have connection in Tzaneen? Been meaning to query this for a while now.