LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[DomJBo]

 

Everyone of course has to do what they believe is best. What baffles me is why you want to change your diet only AFTER you have developed prostrate cancer, and then to include more Omega 3 PUFA's which this study, and others, show a much higher risk of getting it in the first place !

 

That was hypothetical. I find a lot of people do this though (seen it in my family). One of the things that stuck with me from Tim's lecture was that is someone had told him to eat lchf 40 years ago and he would be much healthier he would have as opposed to only finding it out when he did.

 

However for me I would change my diet now in order to not be riddled with some of the "21st" century illnesses.

[Helpmytrap]

Htone, correct me if I'm wrong, changed his diet due to his heart attack. You top wine have changed your sons diet because of your knowledge of his diabetes.

Htone is a diagnosed T2D, I believe it was DaleE that had the cardiac problems.

[davetapson]

As a Type-2 diagnosed diabetic I can vouch for that behaviour. But I can also tell you that what you see there is uncontrolled addiction to carbs, hence you have behaviour that is exactly similar to junkie behaviour or the alcoholic that binge-drinks when he/she gets the opportunity. And until you realise and acknowledge that it IS addiction, your behaviour won't change, just like an addict to anything won't change. And no manner of threatening or reasoning will change that - the addict has to realise that the problem is addiction and must have the desire to change, otherwise nothing will happen. So no offence taken, your observations are spot-on !!!

 

Talking of binge eating carbs, it was Halloween last night (unless you didn't notice.) I've got kids, thought, what the hell, and indulged. Not feeling bad this morning but HUNGRY!!

Edited November 1, 2013 by davetapson

[davetapson]

For the guys looking to lose weight: Have any of you added a cheat day or at least a weekly PROPER cheat meal to your routine?

 

How about giving it a try and seeing what happens? After all, there is only one way to find out if it will make a difference... ;-)

[Helpmytrap]

For the guys looking to lose weight: Have any of you added a cheat day or at least a weekly PROPER cheat meal to your routine?

 

How about giving it a try and seeing what happens? After all, there is only one way to find out if it will make a difference... ;-)

I remember reading a study which had two groups, one with a cheat meal and one without. Both groups lost weight but the group with the cheat meal lost more relative to the other because they had incentive. In the end, a portion the group with the cheat meal had stopped having the cheat meal all together.

[htone]

Htone is a diagnosed T2D, I believe it was DaleE that had the cardiac problems.

 

Nee Boet, I had three heart attacks on my 48th birthday in 2011, so trust me - I have the worst of the worst (or should I say HAD), but I am doing brilliantly thus far avoiding carbs !

[Spinsei]

For the guys looking to lose weight: Have any of you added a cheat day or at least a weekly PROPER cheat meal to your routine?

 

How about giving it a try and seeing what happens? After all, there is only one way to find out if it will make a difference... ;-)

 

You can't "cheat" on a ketogenic diet. It will throw you out of ketosis if you "cheat". Takes a couple of weeks pretty miserable and uncomfortable lo-carb hi-fat eating to achieve ketosis. Anyways, if you are eating enough fat (65-75% fat) you won't get cravings for carbs like bread, sweets, chocolate etc. anyway.

 

I'm keto adapted, takes ONE meal to throw me off and four or five miserable days to get back. Ketosis is comfortable, pointless losing it.

 

Keto bodies measured 0.9mmol this a.m. & blood glucose at 3.9mmol.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Spinsei

[htone]

I remember reading a study which had two groups, one with a cheat meal and one without. Both groups lost weight but the group with the cheat meal lost more relative to the other because they had incentive. In the end, a portion the group with the cheat meal had stopped having the cheat meal all together.

 

Agree with this - the cheat tends to "reset" things. I just have to be quite selective at how I do it, because the really cheap carbs leave me feeling like I have a babelaas, so what I do is have at least one day over a weekend where I indulge in potatoes and rice with my stew.... I know it is not much of a cheat, but I do get an insulin spike of moderate duration, so that's what works for me !

[jcza]

Agree with this - the cheat tends to "reset" things. I just have to be quite selective at how I do it, because the really cheap carbs leave me feeling like I have a babelaas, so what I do is have at least one day over a weekend where I indulge in potatoes and rice with my stew.... I know it is not much of a cheat, but I do get an insulin spike of moderate duration, so that's what works for me !

 

If you must cheat do it during or immediately post-race/ride.

[Mikesa9]

You can't "cheat" on a ketogenic diet. It will throw you out of ketosis if you "cheat". Takes a couple of weeks pretty miserable and uncomfortable lo-carb hi-fat eating to achieve ketosis. Anyways, if you are eating enough fat (65-75% fat) you won't get cravings for carbs like bread, sweets, chocolate etc. anyway.

 

I'm keto adapted, takes ONE meal to throw me off and four or five miserable days to get back. Ketosis is comfortable, pointless losing it.

This ketosis thing really interests me. Some of the books I have read focus on ketosis while others, as well as Tim Noakes, hardly mention it at all.

 

I know that earlier in the thread the matter was discussed at some length, but not in much detail. I have been on the LCHF diet for some six months (very inspired by this thread) now and have lost 18kg and feel great. However, I do cheat occasionally. When I cheat I feel awful for a few hours, but then I'm ok.

 

I have regularly used Ketostix to see if I'm in a state of ketosis the day after I cheat and I must say that there really is no material difference between when I cheat and when I don't. I would appreciate your views on this issue.

 

Is ketosis really a big deal?

[Helpmytrap]

Nee Boet, I had three heart attacks on my 48th birthday in 2011, so trust me - I have the worst of the worst (or should I say HAD), but I am doing brilliantly thus far avoiding carbs !

Geez, life handed you some proper lemons!

[htone]

This ketosis thing really interests me. Some of the books I have read focus on ketosis while others, as well as Tim Noakes, hardly mention it at all.

 

I know that earlier in the thread the matter was discussed at some length, but not in much detail. I have been on the LCHF diet for some six months (very inspired by this thread) now and have lost 18kg and feel great. However, I do cheat occasionally. When I cheat I feel awful for a few hours, but then I'm ok.

 

I have regularly used Ketostix to see if I'm in a state of ketosis the day after I cheat and I must say that there really is no material difference between when I cheat and when I don't. I would appreciate your views on this issue.

 

Is ketosis really a big deal?

 

I can give you my LONG answer ... but I will try and keep it short.

 

Ketosis is not a silver bullet. It doesn't work for everyone and people react and feel differently to being in ketosis than I (and by the sounds of it you) do.

 

For me, it is just easier to remain in ketosis as much as I can, because I am so ultra-sensitive to carbs, and it also means that weight management is almost a non-issue.

 

I like recommending to people to at least try to stay in ketosis for an initial period of about 4-6 months IF one of your goals is muscle adaptation and the ability to train at any level of intensity with little or no carbs. I always compare it to smoking cessation because of the addictive nature of carbs - if you say to a smoker that it is ok to have the odd cigarette, chances are they will never really quit - similarly if you tell someone on LCHF that it is ok to cheat from the start, then they probably will develop a "cheat mentality". But that's based upon my own inability to control my carb "monster" and the fact that remaining in ketosis also feels good to me.

 

What is that good feeling I am talking about, you may ask ? Well, I wake up at about 04h30 in the mornings feeling refreshed and like I want to train (I go to bed before 10pm every night). I have an almost euphoric feeling during the day - I imagine that I am actually burning my bodyfat at all times so maybe it is just a mental trick, who knows ? I have no energy dips and I do not get those overwhelming cravings for food. Sure, I start feeling a little peckish by about 4pm in the afternoons, but not like I want to eat my own arm like when I was still consuming carbs.

 

My health markers have ALL improved and I now manage my diabetes through diet alone and even the plaque in my once clogged arteries has not only stabilized, but has actually noticeably reduced (from having a full sonar done every 6 months).

 

So what happens if I REALLY cheat - I mean when I have the full monty of carb-laden restaurant food, followed by that chocolate brownie smothered in ice-cream ? For starters I feel like death within an hour. I blow up like a balloon and then my blood sugar spikes BIG TIME - often for a period leading into the next day. I fall out of ketosis for a day or 3 (longest ever was about 72 hours) and then I can get back into ketosis relatively quickly by either having a good dose of coconut oil or vigorous exercise or a combination thereof. If you are not as carb sensitive as I am you may just get the crappy feelings, but chances are you will also fall out of ketosis for a while. The one thing around this that I have noticed is that I can have those "controlled cheats" - the rice & potatoes mentioned in an earlier post - and be back in ketosis the next day without any ill effects and it gets easier to return to ketosis the longer I am in ketosis. Someone described it as "revving your engine into the red line just to get rid of the carbon" every once in a while. There is a lot of theory around the body down-regulating while you remain in LC for long periods - for me this is not a bad thing, since my body has been up-regulating for years !

 

Ketosis is indeed a unique experience or "state" to be in - I just love everything about it, but it is for sure not the Holy Grail of diets, although I could quite comfortably remain in this state indefinitely.

 

Hope this helps or stimulates some thoughts !

[htone]

Geez, life handed you some proper lemons!

Ja, then I made some lekker lemonade !!!

 

edit : I would be wrong to agree with the "life handed you" part. I caused all of this myself through over-eating and smoking 20-30 cigs a day. So there.

Edited November 1, 2013 by htone

[Mikesa9]

Brilliant. Thanks htone.

[Topwine]

I caused all of this myself through over-eating and smoking 20-30 cigs a day. So there.

 

If this was a RCT of n=1, then there is no control for smoking 30 a day, excess calories, also prob inactive lyfestyle before , stressfull work/environment, etc, and who knows what else.

 

No evidence that carbs or sugar is the singular cause.

[davetapson]

 

Hope this helps or stimulates some thoughts !

 

I don't make a huge fuss of staying in ketosis - my main aim is to avoid acid reflux, and the side effect of this is that I'm ketotic some of the time - I suppose making me 'cyclical ketotic' but not in a planned way.

 

If I have a Spur meal and then go back to normal eating, I'm normally lightly ketotic the day after. Apart from some bloating etc I don't feel too bad.

 

Where it falls apart for me is weekends away, and 'normal people' eating. Then I feel horrible for a couple of days and it takes a couple of days to hit ketosis again.

 

The question (if you're trying to lose weight, have you tried 'cheating') that I asked is at those trying to lose weight by using LCHF. I have a sneaky feeling that a day or two after I have a Spur meal, I lose weight. Haven't explicity tried it, but I was wondering if anyone else had.

 

But I have to agree with the comments about being in ketosis - I sleep better, sleep for shorter periods, think more clearly and generally just feel 'better'. I also feel a bit hyper and can't stop doing stuff, but I think that is called 'having more energy...' and I'm not used to it.