Cyclists Killed in Durbanville: State of SA Roads

[porqui]

Yous takes your chances cycling in SA

 

Accept the status quo and "ride accordingly" - things are NOT going to change.

It all has to do with attitude and here we are not short of attitude - we all have ATTITUDE

Here we have rights not responsibilities. It's about ME.

 

We need a huge continious awareness campaign to make some small change at most.

I must applaud PPA for the 1.5m gap campaign which cost them more than R2m for that has created awareness and debate.

 

Cycle lanes in Cape Town = joke(think about it - cycle lanes in this city's road system - impossible)

[Red Zone]

Yous takes your chances cycling in SA

 

Accept the status quo and "ride accordingly" - things are NOT going to change.

It all has to do with attitude and here we are not short of attitude - we all have ATTITUDE

Here we have rights not responsibilities. It's about ME.

 

We need a huge continious awareness campaign to make some small change at most.

I must applaud PPA for the 1.5m gap campaign which cost them more than R2m for that has created awareness and debate.

 

Cycle lanes in Cape Town = joke(think about it - cycle lanes in this city's road system - impossible)

 

Now that's the sort of attitude that we all know and love in SA. It cant be fixed so don't even try.

 

Until the '70's most cities around the world didn't have a bike lane, cycling commutors didn't exist. Cities started to choke on their motor fumes, oil security was at an all time low.

 

So people started to change, massive changes that can work here. In other cities there are car free zones on weekends, speed limits are down to 30 km/h, hundreds of Km's of lanes have been built. This is what needs to happen here and there is no reason that it cant. No reason at all beyond a lazy, can't do attitude

[porqui]

Now that's the sort of attitude that we all know and love in SA. It cant be fixed so don't even try.

 

Until the '70's most cities around the world didn't have a bike lane, cycling commutors didn't exist. Cities started to choke on their motor fumes, oil security was at an all time low.

 

So people started to change, massive changes that can work here. In other cities there are car free zones on weekends, speed limits are down to 30 km/h, hundreds of Km's of lanes have been built. This is what needs to happen here and there is no reason that it cant. No reason at all beyond a lazy, can't do attitude

 

It's not that I don't want change.

It's not that my attitude is bad on the road.

 

It is that I live in reality.

And it is that I live in South Africa.

 

(It is that I live in a colourful land)

[Red Zone]

It's not that I don't want change.

It's not that my attitude is bad on the road.

 

It is that I live in reality.

And it is that I live in South Africa.

 

(It is that I live in a colourful land)

I agree with the sentiment that you are setting forth, I think. Which I think is that SA has a systemic problem of making excuses for itself as a reason not to change, be it blaming the big A, crime, unemployment whatever....The prevailing attitude is so averse to doing anything positive and rather making excuses that nothing changes and nothing gets done.

[GLuvsMtb]

im a cyclist. 15 years now

im also a motorist.

Cyclist are inconsiderate. as a motorist in morning or evening traffic you will find cyclist where you dont expect to see or find them. like weaving in and out of traffic.

there are lots of previously disadvantaged woman now also using the roads, with cars twice the size ours.

non the less, they are not gonna go away, neither is the dumb **** bus driver...

but we can change our routine.

• Do we have to ride at peak hour?
  
• I am not a pro cyclist. I have work and family commitments. Combining travelling to and from work (unfortunately during peak hours) with my commute time I don't "loose" any family / work time
  
• Do we have to train then
  
• We train when we are able to. In the perfect world we would all have a support vehicle behind us at 10am on a winter morning while we are out riding.
  
• are we going to loose podium money?
  
• How is this relevant to the 3 deaths in the last 3 weeks? Dr Roux was perhaps a winner in his age group, but he was knocked down while spending time with his son. The Cyclist in Kenridge (still no identity afaik may or may not be a league contender. Who knows? The guy knocked down in East London did not sound like a pro / league contender either
  
• Do we have to ride in the dark with a light? (probably the post stupid thing a road cyclist can do)
  
• If you can snap your fingers to make the sun rise at 5:30am and set at 7pm we don't have to ride in the dark. Until such time many of us don't have much choice in the matter
  
• you can determine your own destiny
  
• Not sure what you mean by this. Do we have any additional means to change the behavior of motorists?
  
• the choice is yours.
  
• Yes, I choose not to be a victim / hostage because SA motorists think that they can bully cyclists and get away with it. A friend drily commented that he is now staying off the roads because of all of what is happening. He lives 12km from the trails and used to have a scenic ride to get there. Now he has to start up his bakkie and find parking before he can enjoy his ride. If anything, we should INCREASE our presence on the roads.
  We can also choose to be visible and wear the appropriate protective gear.
  We can also choose to be responsible road users.
  We cannot choose for other road users and we have no control over that part of our destiny.
  

Make a stupid decision, face the consequences

Are you implying that by exercising our rights to be on public roads during times that are not only convenient for us, but often the only time we have that we are in some way irresponsible / mentally challenged?

 

My replies

[Craigwt]

The biggest problems are that cyclists pretty much travel at the opposite speed as the traffic, when cars are able to go fast, a cyclist is way too slow, when cars are stuck in traffic, cyclists are speeding past. This causes cyclists to not form part of the natural flow on the roads... If cyclists just road as if cars always had right of way (just like you would if you were walking), there would be far less problems.

 

Cyclists are just too fast and small (i.e. not visible enough) to be kept track of when driving.

[Freewheel Radio]

I agree with some that cycle lanes are not condusive to training but this oke who got knocked over yesterday was not training but commuting to work. As one of the hubbers said, they also use their bike to commute to work. All I'm saying is that cycle lanes need to be built in high congestion areas where cyclists regularly commute daily. Its easy for us to sit on our computers saying "screw cycle lanes, I can't train for a sub 3 Argus in cycle lanes!" while people risk their lives daily commuting to work because a bicycle is the only form of transport they have. That's who cycle lanes are protecting and many of them don't have access to platforms like The Hub to voice their concerns about their safety. Perspective here chaps.

[Reg Lizard]

I've spoken to a road design/planning engineer recently and he siad what's the fuss about a couple of cyclist dieing on our roads, every year hundreds of people die in motor vehicle accidents ;-(

[eeeek]

I've spoken to a road design/planning engineer recently and he siad what's the fuss about a couple of cyclist dieing on our roads, every year hundreds of people die in motor vehicle accidents ;-(

 

Bad at what they do if you ask me, transport engineers who are good at what they do actively identify high accident/dangerous intersections and sections of road and submit proposals to authorities for upgrades to mitigate or alleviate dangers. They identify these sections of road based on all incidents, that includes cyclists and pedestrians.

[Guest Smimby]

I am not justifying it I am saying that I can think of a reason

 

Have you cycled on Bottelary recently at that time of day, have you noticed that you cannot see a thing with the sunrise at that time of day?

 

Again, I am not justifying, just saying that I can think of a reason. IT IS STILL A HUGE TRAGEDY

No Reason is GOOD enough....

 

Have you seen how far left they were? Dont care if you can not see in the rising SUN then SLOW down....not the cyclist fault.....the rule of the road states that you have to adjust your speed to the conditions and also your are not allowed in the yellow lane if you can not see ahead AND why leave the scene?

[Guest Smimby]

 

I get irritated with cyclists that ride like idiots because their actions ultimately make the roads more dangerous for me, motorists start targeting cyclists, not john on the red bike!

 

Many guys at work are super anti-cyclists on the roads, I listen to the stories and what they have to say... Half the time, they have a right to be frustrated by the cyclists...

 

I also get irritated by the Taxis and nothing can be done or is ever done about that....

 

The same people who are anti-cyclist at your work is also anti-bus, anti-taxi.....but they wont EVER shout or hoot at a taxi or bus...no they will reverse so the taxi can push in while climbing of the pavement.....

 

The problems here is NOT the 2 rude inconsiderate cyclist......but the 10 000 rude, arrogant drivers.

[Lucky Luke.]

Typical hub er comments here.

"Ride off road"- what about the builder commuting to work?

"Use velodrome"- what about someone living in somersetwest ?

"Cyclist are to blame also"- hmm no! We should all share the road. And I don't see motorist or taxis sharing it with cyclist.

 

They push us to side of the road. Moan that we don't pay a license fee etc. so where is the sharing.

 

On my commute to work I see maybe ONE cyclist breaking a road rule out of the 8-10 I see but I see EVERY 2nd motorist break at least 2-5 at ANY ONE time.

 

Even if you manage to cleanup the cyclist side you will not stop the problem as the route cause is with the motorist. And I am yet to see ANYONE addressing that!

Ie. what is being done about taxis? Nothing(fining them is nothing) and the golden arrow says that it was not the drivers fault since the cyclist clipped the curb and fell----huh? If the bus was passing the cyclist SAFELY like he would and should be passing another road user (1.5m comes to mind also) then that would not have happened.

 

So please stop look at the symptom and address the cause cause. SA drivers!!!

 

Your post echoes my feelings on the matter. Thanks. In civilised countries when cyclists die due to driver negligence there is zero debate about how can we ride our bikes better, whether this is needed or not. It is not a relevant point to be discussed in this context where culpable homicide on the part of the driver is the real issue.

 

Where did you hear that statement from Golden Arrow, presumably about the cyclist killed outside my house here in Kalk Bay? I would like to follow up on that with them. I haven't heard what the status of that case is since it happened and the driver was suspended. And now we've had another Golden Arrow fatality.

[mudda]

I think the safety factor (cars vs bicycles) is why there is such a huge demand in SA for MTB.

 

I also think its safe to say that few cars follows the given speed limit on any road.

 

Just driving to work where the speed limit is 60km/ph, I get a lot of flack for driving at 60km/ph, but i still do 60km/ph

[shawnvan]

I cannot understand why roads cyclists that ride in the dark, have like a 10,000 lumen front light, but then a red back light that looks like a dying candle flame from 100 yards (or none at all...). I see this often...

 

Cars come from behind - put a massive flashing red light on the back for goodness sake - as big and bright as you can find!

[finallygotabike]

I am currently in Tel Aviv, Israel, and you see cyclists everywhere. They ride them on the road, on pavements jumping between the two as it pleases them, some commuters others recreational. Hell, they even ride the 2 wheel push scooters (some electric) in the street as a form or transportation.

 

You never see motorists hooting at them, never see any accidents.......they just co-exist on the road/pavement.

 

Why can't we just all get along in SA?

[Skubarra]

Where did you hear that statement from Golden Arrow, presumably about the cyclist killed outside my house here in Kalk Bay? I would like to follow up on that with them. I haven't heard what the status of that case is since it happened and the driver was suspended. And now we've had another Golden Arrow fatality.

 

I also cannot help but wonder if it really is a coincidence that we have the second cyclist fatality involving a Golden Arrow bus. I view those buses as nothing but minibus-taxis on steroids. Commuting in Durban road I often see those buses speeding at 80 - 100km/h. Racing down in the yellow lane when traffic is backed up and pushing back into the traffic with little notice, jumping yellow/red lights, driving at speed in the back streets etc. Just general aggressive driving behaviour that I never associated with municipal buses while growing up in Joburg. I get the impression that it is not just the odd naughty driver, but a culture within the company, that drivers are rewarded for doing their rounds within a certain timeframe (or penalised if not). My bet that it is only a question of time before we have another cyclist fatality involving a Golden Arrow bus.