CSA / PPA. The Heat is on

[PeterM]

Well perhaps this is off-topic, but I think I have to respond to how you have framed commuter cyclists here.

 

As a bit of background, I did my first sub-3 argus on an 11kg steel bike, as a byproduct of commuting to work on it, with a 10kg backpack, over chappies, suikerbossie and camps bay drive, and back again.

 

I have two cars and am always delighted to leave them in the garage and get on my bike, whether I'm training or riding to a meeting or doing some shopping.

 

Hopefully the average SA mindset will evolve at some point and we'll all think along these lines - to the point where we no longer reject the bike as a means of transport because we live in fear of our car-driving alter-egos.

 

I think bike commuters deserve more respect than the average lycra-clad cyclist. They have more balls doing what they are doing, and usually more skills on the bike too, honed through years of dodging idiots in cars.

 

 

Well said and my thoughts as well.

I am seriously considering buying my next bike as an all-rounder bike for commuting/work as well as Audax rides (Cinelli Bootleg Racing Rats = it is half CX, half tourer). Working from a home-office but my business sites are all a few km away and I need to get there a few times a day.

Keen to start using a bike without putting on the cycling kit – just a helmet and a rucksack. Often it feels stupid to jump into one of my cars, except when I transport heavy/big stuff.

Sorry about the off-topic digression.

PS: PPA gets my vote!

[mazambaan]

This link provides a summary (maybe a little one sided) of where SA motocross is after splitting from MSA.

 

http://www.e-dirt.co.za/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53400&PID=847871&SID=1337232efe9f4dcbf86f4c64a84ed3154513889#847871

 

This is just for interest but shows what can be done when a sponsor / commercial venture gets behind a sport segment.

 

I often hear Andrew Mclean on S/cycling saying how SA road racing teams should be structured etc. Someone well connected and financed (lol) needs to get out there and do it. Petty sniping and bickering is not helpful. Government interference even less so.

 

Mr Newman may have a great pedigree and work like a Trojan (I hope he travels economy!) but it is unacceptable that very promising young cyclists have to appeal on the Hub for relatively small amounts of support. That alone makes me begrudge my R75. Well done Wayne though..

[DJR]

Perhaps we should ask how SA got its greatest moment in competitive road cycling? Do we all agree that it was during Barloworld riding the Tour De France? Robbie Hunter winning a stage?

 

That happened because a private company sponsored a privately run team that had the focus and the drive to get on with it and do things.

 

Do we want moments like that again? Sure! Who can best deliver that?

 

Whoever that might be, private or public, I'll happily support them with my cash, even though I'm "just a recreational cyclist"!

 

Until then I'll pay my own and my childrens PPA membership because they look after our interests the best.

[Tumbleweed]

Perhaps we should ask how SA got its greatest moment in competitive road cycling? Do we all agree that it was during Barloworld riding the Tour De France? Robbie Hunter winning a stage?

 

That happened because a private company sponsored a privately run team that had the focus and the drive to get on with it and do things.

 

Do we want moments like that again? Sure! Who can best deliver that?

 

Whoever that might be, private or public, I'll happily support them with my cash, even though I'm "just a recreational cyclist"!

 

Until then I'll pay my own and my childrens PPA membership because they look after our interests the best.

 

On the Barloworld thing, there was obviously a Saffa thing, the team was never an SA-licensed team.

[eddy]

There is an interview with Gary Blem in this month's Bicycling in which he mentions that although he is "the only World Tour mechanic on the CSA books, I wasn't picked for the 2008 or 2012 Olympics"

 

Maybe there was not enough money to send a mechanic as the blazer brigade used all the money...

[Tumbleweed]

There is an interview with Gary Blem in this month's Bicycling in which he mentions that although he is "the only World Tour mechanic on the CSA books, I wasn't picked for the 2008 or 2012 Olympics"

 

Maybe there was not enough money to send a mechanic as the blazer brigade used all the money...

 

Sorta related:

 

In a big plus for preparations, Cycling SA’s Road Commission has arranged with Team MTN-Qhubeka and team principal Douglas Ryder to use their infrastructure whilst in Italy, and will benefit from the services of their team manager, mechanic, soigneur and vehicles.

http://www.roadtorio.co.za/2013/06/20/sas-top-cyclists-gear-up-for-world-champs/

[Lucky Luke.]

Perhaps we should ask how SA got its greatest moment in competitive road cycling? Do we all agree that it was during Barloworld riding the Tour De France? Robbie Hunter winning a stage?

 

That happened because a private company sponsored a privately run team that had the focus and the drive to get on with it and do things.

 

Do we want moments like that again? Sure! Who can best deliver that?

 

Whoever that might be, private or public, I'll happily support them with my cash, even though I'm "just a recreational cyclist"!

 

Until then I'll pay my own and my childrens PPA membership because they look after our interests the best.

 

Good call, or we could use the example of MTN winning Milan San Remo. Again, big sponsor money + private individual initiatives. Perhaps CSA was involved in some way in the development of those team members? Songezo Jim maybe? I think he came through Velokhaya though, which as far as I can tell is a Pick n' Pay initiative. So again, as far as I can see, no thanks to CSA. Maybe I'm wrong - feel free to correct me.

 

CSA are fond of telling us they need our money to develop the sport. As far as I can see, the single biggest contribution to developing cycling, would be promoting a safe driving culture and teaching kids to ride safely in traffic. Even our World Champion mountain bikers are not safe training in this country.

 

What kind of message does that send to the parents of kids who want to pursue cycling as a sport? There's no way we will build a significant pool of young talent when people are **** scared to ride their bikes. I will never let my teenage daughter cycle on our roads - even the quiet and 'safe' ones - unless I am there to ride behind her.

 

Who spends money on road safety and cycling safety? PPA. Granted, they could be doing a lot more, but they're leagues ahead of CSA, who have no interest in this.

[MuddyMike]

About this stupid CSA camera rule... I want to know what the difference is between having a headlight on your helmet (Many many night races, Trans Baviaans and other big ones) and having a gopro on your helmet? Both weight the same, both mount the same...

 

For MTB we need a massive CSA boycott in SA... MTB has lost its spirit in SA... yes it's great that a few are doing well and go overseas but the majority just want to ride and have fun... If you read the above letter from CSA you'd think they're angels.... wolves in sheep's clothes....

 

As far as I understand it the camera rule is for safety. They do not say you cant use a camera, they just say you cant use it on your body. There have been plenty serious injuries when some dumbass tries to start his go-pro on his helmet which he cant see and he takes too long to fell for the shutter button. if its on your bars its a simple push of a button like your garmin. No issue with cameras on the bars. anyone know any better?

[madmarc]

Wpppa was formed in 1977 to look after recreational cyclists ie ones too young or now too old to race under the wpca (my opinion) and advocate safe roads and bicycle paths.

1978 the first ‘funride’ was won by Lawrence whittikar (current wpca road champ at the time), he later became ppa chair and later csa pres.

In 1996 – Wpppa – introduced their first Giro del Capo for locals, this was expanded to o/seas teams. see problem

Problem – the wpppa wanted the giro on the sacf and uci calendar but because they weren’t affiliated to sacf this could not happen hence the agreement between sacf and wpppa to form csa. I think Lawrence Whittikar was the 1^st csa president.

The giro was given a 2.5 rating (the lowest) on the uci calendar.

Ppa lost the giro sponsorship – no giro and no need to belong to csa

Sascoc wants all sports associations to reflect geographics of rsa (this in itself is impractical) ie only 9 regional reps with ppa being 1 too many.

Csa constitution is rewritten and ppa says it was written out – and take the gap.

This is according to my unfocussed memory, i didn’t quote dates because i can’t remember the exact year. I remember 1996 because that is the year my daughter was born and i pushed her in her pram up vissershok to watch the first giro.

 

You still havn't answered the question "when did PPA and SACF merge to form CSA" If you having a problem understanding the question, then i can draw you a picture.

 

there's a number of us waiting in anticipation for your answer

Edited June 21, 2013 by madmarc

[Icycling]

It was at an AGM about 5 years back - maybe more when the those who came to the AGM were asked to vote. Their was a "sunset clause" which was about to expire at that point PPA need to be part of CSA or not to be part of CSA - the members who attend the AGM decided in the interested of cycling it was better to be part of CSA and the greater sport than just to work in isolation in the WP as a non recognized sporting associaion. Their were some "autonomy right" which were granted in perpetually in this constitution - problem is SACOC has handed CSA with constitutions for all sports and the words in "autonomy" and "in perpetually" do not future in these constitutions and SASCOC seem to believe nobody has the rights to this type of clause! Well thats how I remember it!

 

But line is SACOC is the "law" for sports in RSA and either fit in or fall out - could be one point of view!

[ccc2]

You still havn't answered the question "when did PPA and SACF merge to form CSA" If you having a problem understanding the question, then i can draw you a picture.

 

there's a number of us waiting in anticipation for your answer

20?? ....... no , i'm not going to reveal the answer. stew in your ignorance a bit longer

[madmarc]

20?? ....... no , i'm not going to reveal the answer. stew in your ignorance a bit longer

 

whatever!!!

[Kranswurm]

20?? ....... no , i'm not going to reveal the answer. stew in your ignorance a bit longer

['Dale]

Put down the handbags, ladies...

Feels like I'm in court with PPA and CSA.

 

:-)

[ccc2]

20?? ....... no , i'm not going to reveal the answer. stew in your ignorance a bit longer

ag sorry man.let me stop teasing you

2004 they amalgamated

2008 - sunset clause in constitution - do ppa stay in or withdraw from csa (basically if csa isn't working then ppa have the option to pull out). after very passionate speeches by various ppa exco committee members to withdraw from csa, the members present at the 2008 AGM unanimously voted to stay in CSA. that was 5 years ago.

draw your own conclusions why ppa don't put it to their members now but would rather approach the courts.

['Dale]

Any insider here that can supply with regular updates as the legal process moves forward?

Edited June 22, 2013 by ' Dale