Cholesterol, statins and all that nonsense

[TopFuel]

Statins have been thoroughly discredited. However, it is such a big business - the leading revenue-spinning drug out there, that it will be difficult to the truth to ever reach the patient.

Correct - Lipitor is the all time best selling drug ever

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.ezproxy.uct.ac.za/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD008226.pub2/abstract

 

Systematic review showing that atorvastatin (Lipitor) is actually quite effective in lowering blood lipids.

[Helpmytrap]

Just don't confuse the cholesterol in your blood and the cholesterol ingested (food) because those two are completely unrelated... It has been proven that the consumption of cholesterol has no influence on an individuals cholesterol levels.

[Sniffie]

http://onlinelibrary...6.pub2/abstract

 

Systematic review showing that atorvastatin (Lipitor) is actually quite effective in lowering blood lipids.

Prove of the above statement is not hard to find, but concrete scientific proof that the use of statins does have a positive effect on life expectancy or quality of life is much harder, if not impossible to find. Coupled with this, the possible side effects of long term statin use, I am starting to wonder what will kill you first, your own cholestrol or the statins? Edited July 5, 2013 by Sniffie

[Guest Latent Blue]

Statins have been thoroughly discredited. However, it is such a big business - the leading revenue-spinning drug out there, that it will be difficult to the truth to ever reach the patient.

 

Statins have been thoroughly and extensively proven to reduce morbidity and mortality in an ICU setting as well as reduction of the length of stay. On the rest I dont have much info/experience. But my ICU patients got statins routinely. As is first world practice...

[TopFuel]

Prove of the above statement is not hard to find, but concrete scientific proof that the use of statins does have a positive effect on life expectancy or quality of life is much harder, if not impossible to find. Coupled with this, the possible side effects of long term statin use, I am starting to wonder what will kill you first, your own cholestrol or the statins?

 

You see, the issue here is that you have not substantiated your claims. All the research I have read has not spoken of nasty killer side-effects (that is not say they haven't mentioned side effects), and you're discrediting that with nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Plus, reduction in plasma lipids has been associated with improved cardiovascular outcomes and decreases in mortality. That was one of the first posts I made on this thread.

 

If you have evidence that I haven't read, please post it, I'd like to see why you think what you think.

[McD23]

Statins have been thoroughly and extensively proven to reduce morbidity and mortality in an ICU setting as well as reduction of the length of stay. On the rest I dont have much info/experience. But my ICU patients got statins routinely. As is first world practice...

and the world was once flat according to everybody, could it be that perhaps, maybe there is a chance that all these 'medically qualified outliers' might possibly be onto something ?

It seems to me that the traditional advice of most world health organisations, dieticians, Dr's and cardiologists seems to have done nothing to avert the increase in heart illness related deaths in the last 30 years - who is to blame the patient's or the advice , because surely if they where getting sound advice we wouldn't be staring ever increasing numbers around this issue ?

[JGR]

The impression I got from his talk was not to entirely discount the role of cholesterol, but not to overstate it. It seems as if he was touting the role of diabetes as a greater risk factor (which I agree on) and the fact that the diet suggested by the earlier researchers could have contributed to an increase in diabetes, and hence heart disease.

 

Cholesterol is certainly a factor to be considered in heart disease. The study I have posted above is a review of data on statins (cholesterol lowering medication) and their effect on cardiovascular mortality.

It was an observation more than buying into everything he said or the full extend of the article. I dont use statins or am diabetic but can associated with his premise of carb intolerance. He is also the first to admit to what he used to preach, ergo to change the mind of a renowned medical professional should also carry some weight?

 

The more we challenge the status quo the more we learn I guess ...in some ways like the popularity of minimalist running shoes at the moment

[Guest Latent Blue]

and the world was once flat according to everybody, could it be that perhaps, maybe there is a chance that all these 'medically qualified outliers' might possibly be onto something ?

It seems to me that the traditional advice of most world health organisations, dieticians, Dr's and cardiologists seems to have done nothing to avert the increase in heart illness related deaths in the last 30 years - who is to blame the patient's or the advice , because surely if they where getting sound advice we wouldn't be staring ever increasing numbers around this issue ?

 

I dont want to really get into this... I left clinical medicine... but the advice your uninformed gp gives you would still >98% of the times be safe... we base out assumptions on what we see in experiments... its all flawed, bit its a game of %...

There is so many factors to concider when speaking about heart disease... im a doctor and wont even feel comfortable discussing this with my limited knowledge!!!

 

There is something to say for this though: theres a big difference between research done by (unbiased) medical institutions and pharmaceutical (fat-pig) companies!

[McD23]

I dont want to really get into this... I left clinical medicine... but the advice your uninformed gp gives you would still >98% of the times be safe... we base out assumptions on what we see in experiments... its all flawed, bit its a game of %...

There is so many factors to concider when speaking about heart disease... im a doctor and wont even feel comfortable discussing this with my limited knowledge!!!

 

There is something to say for this though: theres a big difference between research done by (unbiased) medical institutions and pharmaceutical (fat-pig) companies!

Agree on your last comment.

When one looks at the pharmaceutical, medical and food industry, there is a lot of money being generated from the current state of peoples general health and the perception around what is healthy.

Any contrarian advice is going to struggle to see the light of day with the combined clout of those industries protecting their revenues.

Bottom line one needs to invest a little time in developing your own ideas about what is and isn't good for you.

[TALUS]

I have read most major papers on clinical practise re cholesterol. I have access to a medical school library. I have cholesterol of about 5,5 untreated and HDL of below 1. I have reasonable insight and choose to take Crestor. Informed consent. Dont always blame the Dr's - take control of your own decisions. Beware the charismatic/ populistic speaker....

[Spinsei]

Side effects of statins for 5 years: 0.6% to 1.5% were harmed by developing diabetes, 10% were harmed by muscle damage.

Benefits of statins for 5 years: 98% saw no benefit 0% were saved from death 1.6% were helped by preventing heart attack.

S/effects def outweigh benefits.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Spinsei

[Spinsei]

Side effects of statins for 5 years: 0.6% to 1.5% were harmed by developing diabetes, 10% were harmed by muscle damage.

Benefits of statins for 5 years: 98% saw no benefit 0% were saved from death 1.6% were helped by preventing heart attack.

S/effects def outweigh benefits.

[forkie]

I have high cholestrol and take Crestor. The way my doctor explained it to me is that there not so much a threat of heart disease , but a very increased threat of having a stroke due to the blocked arteries.

[Spinsei]

Risk factors for heart disease: Don't check overall cholesterol, check fasting glucose, triglycerides and HDL

 

http://dietheartnews.com/2013/06/triglycerides-not-cholesterol-is-the-bona-fide-risk-factor-for-coronary-heart-disease/

[Spinsei]

High cholesterol is not a bad thing per se. I got this tweet from Tim Noakes ‏@ProfTimNoakes In reply to my question. "Your real risk factors - blood glucose, insulin, weight, blood pressure, inflammation. Check LDL-particle size and number."

[Joe Low]

The Hub is not a good place to get medical advice.

 

For what its worth, I've got hypocholesterolemia & react badly to statins. That means that my cholesterol sits around 8, but can vary within a range of 7-10 depending whether i'm being a good boy or not.

 

From Prof Raal, the country's leading authority on the subject, 60% of people with this condition have a heart attack by the age of 41.

 

This is enough to concentrate my mind that cholesterol is a significant factor in atherosclerosis and heart attacks. Statins significantly reduce cholesterol but often give other problems.

 

To anyone with a concern with this - do your own research thoroughly and only use the info on this thread just to stimulate your thoughts on the subject.