Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted July 8, 2013 Share sorry man - v12 has first option. No worries man. SHould have pressed "post" instead of going to get the little one, who's just woken up... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted July 8, 2013 Share Sweet brakes But I have to disagree on the "same time maintenance" comment. I found my elixirs CR's tough to bleed, I had to be very patient ito of getting every little bubble out...some little ones seems to get trapped somewhere in the system so I had to sit there lightly knocking the last few out on every bleed, even had a little hex key for this Shimano requires less bleeding and the job itself is much easier. Avid admitted that their previous gen taperbore design trapped air making it really hard to bleed em properly. Even world cup mechanics knew that to bleed them properly, you had to bleed them often (per bleed session). then they worked well for a long time. But even with that, they work well. I also cannot identify with your generalisation that they are that kuk simply because I've had avid Juicy 5s, Elixir CRs (MY 2009), Elixir 5s (2011), Codes (2011) and X0 Trails (2013). Only the Codes gave me **** that was fixed once i switched to Motul RB 600 and bled those suckers myself. Super modulation and power with the Elixir 5s, CRs, Codes and X0- Trails, the exception being the J5s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted July 8, 2013 Share Sweet brakes But I have to disagree on the "same time maintenance" comment. I found my elixirs CR's tough to bleed, I had to be very patient ito of getting every little bubble out...some little ones seems to get trapped somewhere in the system so I had to sit there lightly knocking the last few out on every bleed, even had a little hex key for this Shimano requires less bleeding and the job itself is much easier. Cheaper to just blow all the fluid through while putting new in - time costs money... and the more fluid you move through the more likely the little bubbles will move - as I said before - once the fluid is contaminated by water, then you must replace it all - standard brake fluid is so cheap using a bit more is not material - and for sure will do a better job. As a reference point - my Elixir 9RS's have not been bled since before Sani2C last year - So that means 2 x Sani, 1 x W2W, Route 66, GR300 and the Epic on a single bleed.... and probably a lot more than just those in km terms... I probably will swap the fluid soon - just need to get motivated to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted July 8, 2013 Share To get Shimano brakes to work: Pull the lever.To get Avids to work: tinker, tinker, fiddle, fiddle, bleed, tinker, fiddle.....test.....crash......tinker, fiddle, fiddle, bleed, tinker test.....ahhh just right.... Sounds like you should outsource your brake work... that and/or your riding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted July 8, 2013 Share Dude, its thehub, I take nothing seriaas....but thanks for the concern On your last comment, I have had both...and I can honestly say shimano is better is every way. I really wanted the Elixirs to work because I dropped big moola on them...I tried everything but sometimes its just better to give up and chuck. no worries hey, each to their own. I feeled up a set of shimano brakes once: they definitely have a different feel. But when i'm out riding, i forget about feel and more about whether stop me or not. but i appreciate that how something feels during operation plays a big role in the overall appreciation of your ride. So all good. can we hug now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted July 8, 2013 Share Avid admitted that their previous gen taperbore design trapped air making it really hard to bleed em properly. Even world cup mechanics knew that to bleed them properly, you had to bleed them often (per bleed session). then they worked well for a long time. But even with that, they work well. I also cannot identify with your generalisation that they are that kuk simply because I've had avid Juicy 5s, Elixir CRs (MY 2009), Elixir 5s (2011), Codes (2011) and X0 Trails (2013). Only the Codes gave me **** that was fixed once i switched to Motul RB 600 and bled those suckers myself. Super modulation and power with the Elixir 5s, CRs, Codes and X0- Trails, the exception being the J5s. Yeah. Same here. I've had shimano, tektro & now avid. I love tinkering, so I don't mind the bleeding. Plus I wanna learn to do stuff myself. My rears need a bleed, but that's only because it was my first time bleeding brakes, and I had installed new hoses as well. Gonna give that a go this weekend / later in the week. As for air bubbles, yeah - fine. But also remember if you bleed them too quickly, you actually create air bubbles yourself due to the vortices inside, and the vacuum that is created. You also need to make sure that the nipples are seated properly before doing the bleed. And I can't believe I'm saying this, because it should be common sense BUT the caliper needs to be below the lever. If your hose has a loop in it, rather rest your bike with the front wheel in the air so that the hose goes downhill ALL the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouxtjie Posted July 8, 2013 Share Avid admitted that their previous gen taperbore design trapped air making it really hard to bleed em properly. Even world cup mechanics knew that to bleed them properly, you had to bleed them often (per bleed session). then they worked well for a long time. But even with that, they work well. I also cannot identify with your generalisation that they are that kuk simply because I've had avid Juicy 5s, Elixir CRs (MY 2009), Elixir 5s (2011), Codes (2011) and X0 Trails (2013). Only the Codes gave me **** that was fixed once i switched to Motul RB 600 and bled those suckers myself. Super modulation and power with the Elixir 5s, CRs, Codes and X0- Trails, the exception being the J5s.Yip that name still makes me de moer in....but then everyone I ride with had the same experience but with different sets...Elixir and juicy ranges.....you can brake the one second and the next you have nothing....screw the noise it makes, its more about the fact that they fade. Don't get me wrong, I like SRAM components(groupo's, rs forks etc) but they really should have fired the engineer in charge of designing the brakes...They are not on the same level as their other stuff. I hate maintenance whore components whether its hubs, BB's, brakes or groupos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouxtjie Posted July 8, 2013 Share no worries hey, each to their own. I feeled up a set of shimano brakes once: they definitely have a different feel. But when i'm out riding, i forget about feel and more about whether stop me or not. but i appreciate that how something feels during operation plays a big role in the overall appreciation of your ride. So all good. can we hug now? Buy me dinner first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojoman Posted July 8, 2013 Share This was the reply from the SRAM agent when I mailed them about the amount of noise the brakes were making on my new bike, a big thumbs up for replacing everything but it didnt make that much difference, for me its the noise that drives me nuts, when you brake hard its fine but when you lightly brake they squeal! Hi Yes, we have had some noise issue with a small amount of Avid brakes. There are many contributing factors including the frame and wheel that they are mounted to, as well as riding style, and of course contamination of pads/rotors. Please take your bike to your local bike shop who must contact me regarding this problem. In respect to Avid, we will replace the pads with Organic compound brake pads and the new HS1 rotors. The shop will also have to check a number of other things on the frame/fork, as well as ensure the new pads and rotors are bedded in correctly. If the shop can get the serial numbers of the brakes to me then I can send these items to them free of charge. Thanks, SRAM Technical SupportCape Cycle Systems (PTY) LTD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouxtjie Posted July 8, 2013 Share Cheaper to just blow all the fluid through while putting new in - time costs money... and the more fluid you move through the more likely the little bubbles will move - as I said before - once the fluid is contaminated by water, then you must replace it all - standard brake fluid is so cheap using a bit more is not material - and for sure will do a better job. As a reference point - my Elixir 9RS's have not been bled since before Sani2C last year - So that means 2 x Sani, 1 x W2W, Route 66, GR300 and the Epic on a single bleed.... and probably a lot more than just those in km terms... I probably will swap the fluid soon - just need to get motivated to do it.When I used to bleed my elixirs I always replaced all the fluid, every time....I would follow the instructions and youtube videos and then go and drink a beer, waiting for the bubbles to "settle", then I would use that little torx key they give you with the brakes to tap very gently on the hoses, calipers and levers and few bubbles will still go through....it was like a 2-3 hour job no jokes....with my current XT set it is about 15 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebel Posted July 8, 2013 Share learn to understand tongue-in-cheek. like i suggested, unbunch. You'll feel plenty better. Promise! my lame kidding aside, i agree with V12: avids do work well. I've only ever used avids, so speaking from experience. Not saying they are better than Shimano because i haven't used them on a comparative basis, but the mindless hating is just silly. Agreed. I have Juicy 7's on my DH bike and I haven't had issues. If you bleed them properly there should be no issues. If you are getting air in them, it is coming from somewhere. Water in the fluid, leak somewhere, etc. AFAIK DOT 3, 4, 5.1 brake fluids are hygroscopic. If you don't seal that container properly or leave it open too long and moisture gets in, a small drop of water makes a LOT of steam which results in bubbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyMike Posted July 8, 2013 Share Buy me dinner first get a room.... rouxtjie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted July 8, 2013 Share Swap to SRF.... I used to use the Motul 600 stuff... there is a world of difference... especially after a long weekend's use - I might even still have a can or 2 of 600 unopened.. There is a certain Epic winner this year that also agrees with you... i only got the RBF 600 because I couldn't source the RBF 660. have you any experience with teh 660? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V12man Posted July 8, 2013 Share I could of been seriously injured with that Avid brake faiure. Thats not midless hating. Hands up everyone who's brand new Shimano brakes have failed without warning?......anyone? What was the usage of the brakes before the incident? What exactly on the brake failed? who did the investigation? who maintained the brakes/what is their service history? What injuries did you sustain? Did you inform the manufacturer of the incident? Did they investigate? I am not knocking you - just interested in the specific failure and the response to it - and yes - I have seen brand new shimano XT's leak fluid from a caliper piston seal before being used - that would be a great way to crash hard too - can't say what the incidence is of problems like that. But what I have seen, is a lot of brakes badly maintained and tested - and mostly by people that should know better. You should not ascribe a failure to a brand without specifics - especially for a high maintenance and safety critical item like brakes - generally it is maintenance that is at fault for the failure, not the original construction. Capricorn and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn Posted July 8, 2013 Share get a room.... dont hate: u welcome too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebel Posted July 8, 2013 Share I could of been seriously injured with that Avid brake faiure. Thats not midless hating. Hands up everyone who's brand new Shimano brakes have failed without warning?......anyone? Ask Kevin Evans that question.... Spoke101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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