Froome Voooom

Eldron · July 16, 2013

I like watching Froome. It is the cycling equivalent of X-Men or maybe Spiderman. When the geeky kid who had sand kicked in his face, suddenly realises - despite looking like a dork and being the skinniest kid in the playground, he now has the power to PK anybody at will.

Cycling Grand Tours - the only place where the lil guy gets to be king!

Eldron · July 16, 2013

He calls SA home.
He is employed by the Union Jack.

Agreed. We're all eager to claim a rider for our country but to be fair - Chris has spent more time in SA than any other country. Someone on the hub even employed him ;-)

kosmonooit · July 16, 2013

A hundred years of rich doping history at this event. One guy crushing all the other dopers - with years of EPO-powered adaptations to their systems - by a massive margin. Occams razor is saying to me, Luke you'd be an idiot not to question it.

As is just about everyone else, but lets not be blinded by the antics of psychopathic liars, driven by greed.

My sense is that Chris is for real. You can see it in his manner that he is handling all of this, and I for one wish him strength in not only taking Yellow home, but in handling this whole situation of pessimism and character assassination.

Lucky Luke. · July 16, 2013

As is just about everyone else, but lets not be blinded by the antics of psychopathic liars, driven by greed.

My sense is that Chris is for real. You can see it in his manner that he is handling all of this, and I for one wish him strength in not only taking Yellow home, but in handling this whole situation of pessimism and character assassination.

Yes I agree he definitely shows class and strength of character in the way he handles the interviews. A very likeable and solid guy by the looks of things. I don't think he is doing anything that he himself views as cheating. It's his team management that concerns me, and exactly how far they have gone with their 'scientific approach'. I hope his long term health is not at risk.

Eldron · July 16, 2013

As is just about everyone else, but lets not be blinded by the antics of psychopathic liars, driven by greed.

My sense is that Chris is for real. You can see it in his manner that he is handling all of this, and I for one wish him strength in not only taking Yellow home, but in handling this whole situation of pessimism and character assassination.

Meh. As with all drug questions only Froomdawg and maybe Brailsford and 2 or 3 others know the real answer to the "is Froome to good to be clean" question.

My question is: does it matter?

We cannot know the answer until he is either found guilty and/or pulls a Lance style 'fess up session.

So why do we bother asking? It's nonsensical. Right now I'm loving the tour - it seems to have more content than previous tours....Impey in yellow, Sagan and that Garmin rider popping wheelies on Ventoux day, Quintana being "discovered", the sprinters putting on a great show, Orica and their matemanship, Cannondale mocking the sagan pinching moment - one of the best recent tours in my opinion. Why spoilt it by asking questions we can't possibly answer?

Me - I have a purposely naive until proven otherwise mentality - so far so good!

'Dale · July 16, 2013

I can compartmentalise and enjoy the Tour.

Naive NO

Be thrilled with the racing as it shows on my telly OH YEAH

Eldron · July 16, 2013

Yes I agree he definitely shows class and strength of character in the way he handles the interviews. A very likeable and solid guy by the looks of things. I don't think he is doing anything that he himself views as cheating. It's his team management that concerns me, and exactly how far they have gone with their 'scientific approach'. I hope his long term health is not at risk.

If we are going to delve into the drug thing - my feeling is that they have something that is far beyond what WADA can even imagine or measure. A bit like Lance's '96 EPO - it wasn't illegal then (if memory serves) - it was only retrospecitvely illegal. At the time Lance was 4 steps ahead of the vampires.

I think Froome is practially innocent but statistically guilty if that makes sense?

Either way - it won't really phase me until "facts" arise. Even the facts are dodgy in most cases.

dracs · July 16, 2013

I just think its a pity - so many cycling fans are missing out on enjoying an awesome tour and an attacking fearless performance because of the cynicism caused by other peoples actions.

Enjoy it for now - time will tell if he is cheating. For the record, I don't believe he is - but I obviously have to allow for the possibility - even if in my opinion (based on many discussions I've had with people who know the guy) he is not.

I am really hoping brailsford's suggestion yesterday will quiet some people down for a bit - but I fear it will not. Seems like a more than reasonable offer on his part - but may be difficult for WADA to accommodate in the short term.

Edited July 16, 2013 by dracs

Lucky Luke. · July 16, 2013

If we are going to delve into the drug thing - my feeling is that they have something that is far beyond what WADA can even imagine or measure.

Yes, I have similar feelings - somewhere between AICAR and GW1516, and some next-level gene-doping wizardry. I've heard that UK scientists are leaders in the field.

A bit like Lance's '96 EPO - it wasn't illegal then (if memory serves) - it was only retrospecitvely illegal. At the time Lance was 4 steps ahead of the vampires.

It was banned, but there was no test until the 2000 Olympics, hence open season for many years.

rock · July 16, 2013

I hear you...just that all focus is on Froom and no questions on second man home?

fair point but the 2nd place guy didnt stomp the field in a flat TT as well......Grand Tour GC guys are amazing, they climb with the best climbing specialists and then TT with the best TT'ers?

Lucky Luke. · July 16, 2013

Just found the reference for you:

EPO was included in the IOC's list of prohibited substances in 1990, however the fight against EPO was long hampered by the lack of a reliable testing method. An EPO detection test (approved by WADA) was first implemented at the Sydney Olympic Games in 2000.

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/about-wada/history/

kosmonooit · July 16, 2013

It's his team management that concerns me, and exactly how far they have gone with their 'scientific approach'...

Even with their high profile and very public zero tolerance campaign? they interviewed everyone in the organisation and purged anyone with any history of even the slightest involvement in doping. Surely that can't be a smokescreen.

dracs · July 16, 2013

If we are going to delve into the drug thing - my feeling is that they have something that is far beyond what WADA can even imagine or measure. A bit like Lance's '96 EPO - it wasn't illegal then (if memory serves) - it was only retrospecitvely illegal. At the time Lance was 4 steps ahead of the vampires.

I think Froome is practially innocent but statistically guilty if that makes sense?

Either way - it won't really phase me until "facts" arise. Even the facts are dodgy in most cases.

Froome's own words make it clear that he would consider what you suggest cheating. The guy is not an idiot - he knows that his legacy would be destroyed if he is using something unknown or undetectable now that is likely to become illegal 5 10 or even 50 years down the line. No reasonable person would expect any Sky conspiracy to stay under-wraps forever - esp after recent US Postal and other unravellings.

Come on - its logical - and you are a logical guy.

Edited July 16, 2013 by dracs

SwissVan · July 16, 2013

fair point but the 2nd place guy didnt stomp the field in a flat TT as well......Grand Tour GC guys are amazing, they climb with the best climbing specialists and then TT with the best TT'ers?

Quintana needs to catch a wake up, he should also be able to klap out a good ITT compared to Froome or the other GC contenders, especially on these "short" ITT stages i.e. < 40km

Lucky Luke. · July 16, 2013

Even with their high profile and very public zero tolerance campaign? they interviewed everyone in the organisation and purged anyone with any history of even the slightest involvement in doping. Surely that can't be a smokescreen.

In my opinion a necessary smokescreen, and only implemented after the LA fallout, when Sky's hiring of a well-known doping doctor became public knowledge. It was a very necessary, defensive PR strategy.

That said, I don't believe Sky are doing anything like what has been done in the past. Chris is strong all year long. I don't think he is on some kind of labour-intensive, logistically challenging blood vector program requiring lots of ducking and diving.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Lucky Luke.

Eldron · July 16, 2013

Froome's own words make it clear that he would consider what you suggest cheating. The guy is not an idiot - he knows that his legacy would be destroyed if he is using something unknown or undetectable now that is likely to become illegal 5 10 or even 50 years down the line. No reasonable person would expect any Sky conspiracy to stay under-wraps forever - esp after recent US Postal and other unravellings.

Come on - its logical - and you are a logical guy.

Logic tell me that there hasn't been a clean winner of the tour in years ever. So Chris is smashing dopers clean? Methinks not. Hence my "statistically guilty" comment. Chris can beat the worlds best TTers bar one then head to the mountains and smash everyone (including specialist climbers) a few days later? Clean? There is a big red flashing light somewhere...

Given that there have been mutiple guilties again this year suggests that the peleton may be cleaner but is not clean.

Meh - like I said - we're debating something we can't possibly know and something that has no positive out come. No more from me on this.

Edit: Damnit - for got to say - hasn't Froome won everything he enterred bar one 2nd place this year? Lance Armstrong wasn't even that good!

2013 Sky Pro Cycling Team 9 victoires 1er du classement général du Tour of Oman (Classement général)

6eme de la 2eme etape du Tour of Oman (Fanja in Bidbid - Al Bustan)

13eme de la 3eme etape du Tour of Oman (Nakhal Fort - Wadi Dayqah Dam)

2eme de la 4eme etape du Tour of Oman (Al Saltiyah in Samail - Jabal Al Akhdhar (Green Mountain))

1er de la 5eme etape du Tour of Oman (Al Alam Palace - Ministry of Housing in Boshar)

2eme du classement général du Tirreno - Adriatico (Classement général)

1er de la 4eme etape du Tirreno - Adriatico (Narni - Prati di Tivo)

6eme de la 5eme etape du Tirreno - Adriatico (Ortona - Chieti)

19eme de la 6eme etape du Tirreno - Adriatico (Porto Sant Elpidio - Porto Sant Elpidio)