Dumbing trails down

[Bobbo_SA]

This is not Germany as its ulikely to find english sign. Quite sure this is a US sign from someshere in Colorado, great one though

 

TCG for the win, Spot on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokopelli_Trail

[NicoBoshoff]

Look I think it's important to remind ourselves that some obstacles are outliers on a trail and shod be adressed with an alternative line.

 

Say for instance there's a trail that has a huge gap on it or crazy drop, but the rest of the trail is totally safe/walkable. A B-line on that is sensible IMO, even if to just maintain flow to the trail and prevent collisions.

 

But to put a B-line next to a walkable/squashable obstacle is just pandering to the masses and not promoting progression.

 

Rode never-ending story again yesterday and all the jumps on it can be ridden over if so inclined, but at speed you can hit and fly. Perfect. Then there is a rock garden that I don't know how anyone (and I mean anyone) can ride down. It's literally a 90 degree turn with insane rocks on a cliff face. Fall and you die. However I reckon that is obviously a hike-a-bike section, or I am seriously kakka.

 

Point is, I don't see the point in b-lines if there is an alternative solution already on the onstacle e.g. Walk it or ride it slowly. But if it is a case of do it or die then perhaps a b-line is needed.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Look I think it's important to remind ourselves that some obstacles are outliers on a trail and shod be adressed with an alternative line.

 

Say for instance there's a trail that has a huge gap on it or crazy drop, but the rest of the trail is totally safe/walkable. A B-line on that is sensible IMO, even if to just maintain flow to the trail and prevent collisions.

 

But to put a B-line next to a walkable/squashable obstacle is just pandering to the masses and not promoting progression.

 

Rode never-ending story again yesterday and all the jumps on it can be ridden over if so inclined, but at speed you can hit and fly. Perfect. Then there is a rock garden that I don't know how anyone (and I mean anyone) can ride down. It's literally a 90 degree turn with insane rocks on a cliff face. Fall and you die. However I reckon that is obviously a hike-a-bike section, or I am seriously kakka.

 

Point is, I don't see the point in b-lines if there is an alternative solution already on the onstacle e.g. Walk it or ride it slowly. But if it is a case of do it or die then perhaps a b-line is needed.

 

Absolutely. And that's why (at least in Tokai) the new jumps won't be doubles, they'll be tables. Which you can huck to your maddest, but if you stuff up you don't die.

[BLACKvoodoo]

If at some point you don't feel like you're gonna die... you're doing it wrong

[Guest Omega Man]

A popular misconception (Especially in SA) is that big jumps are more dangerous. So all our stuff is knee high with short little takeoffs.

 

These jumps are actually MORE dangerous cos your front wheel comes off the lip before the rear is fully compressed so when your rear wheel comes off the lip you get flicked over the bars. If the jumps are made big with both of your wheels on the takeoff before your bike leaves the takeoff your bike is settled.

 

That jump coming out of the corner after the road gap landing at Tokai is a prime example. That should be a huge ass table but instead it's a tiny lip that is too short and on the exit of a corner so your bike is never settled.

 

The correct way to build "progressive" jumps is to make them big for a few reasons.

• Your entire bike is on the takeoff before it leaves the jump so it's settled before you take off. This is the most imprtant thing
  
• Novices won't overjump the jump cos it's big so they won't flat land
  
• The jump being big means you can work your way up to clearing the jump
  

The stuff in Europe is built in such a way that it's safe. The road gaps have straight run ins with loooong run outs. If there's a double it's either off of the natural line or there are a few setup jumps before it so you know if you clear the setup jumps you are ok for the gap. And all the tracks are "in character" so you don't ride a easy trail and suddenly you're face with a ridiculous gap. If the tracks are gnarly they are gnarly from start to finish.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Omega Man

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

A popular misconception (Especially in SA) is that big jumps are more dangerous. So all our stuff is knee high with short little takeoffs.

 

These jumps are actually MORE dangerous cos your front wheel comes off the lip before the rear is fully compressed so when your rear wheel comes off the lip you get flicked over the bars. That jump coming out of the corner after the road gap landing at Tokai is a prime example. That should be a huge ass table but instead it's a tiny lip that is too short and on the exit of a corner so your bike is never settled.

 

The correct way to build "progressive" jumps is to make them big for a few reasons.

• Your entire bike is on the takeoff before it leaves the jump so it's settled before you take off. This is the most imprtant thing
  
• Novices won't overjump the jump cos it's big so they won't flat land
  
• The jump being big means you can work your way up to clearing the jump
  

 

100%. that's also why many of the jumps are now being extended back so that your whole bike fits on the kicker.

[NotSoBigBen]

I hear what y'all are saying but for myself I reckon that I often am just at the end of my talent and no matter how many times I ride something I'm never gonna make it and or jump it ..... I have made peace with that and just walk where necessary (at my age I guess it may well just be more about self preservation )

 

In fact even worse I now and then just by chance ride something that I have not been able to and then never to be repeated

 

Perhaps there are just limits to some people's ability to progress?

[Guest Omega Man]

I hear what y'all are saying but for myself I reckon that I often am just at the end of my talent and no matter how many times I ride something I'm never gonna make it and or jump it ..... I have made peace with that and just walk where necessary (at my age I guess it may well just be more about self preservation )

 

In fact even worse I now and then just by chance ride something that I have not been able to and then never to be repeated

 

Perhaps there are just limits to some people's ability to progress?

Ja for sure. But you want your progression to be halted by your testicular threshold not bad trail building.

[NotSoBigBen]

Ja for sure. But you want your progression to be halted by your testicular threshold not bad trail building.

 

True that, pity when you only start with 1 'testicular' threshhold though

[Wendell]

I know now why I don't visit this site on a regular basis !!!! I want to know from you guys down in the CAPE..where there seems to be mountain bike trails that are out of this world. I can imagine that with the Trail building experience and talents of Mourant you have the best trails available !!! BUT how many of you have the choice of TWO trails within 4km of each other? The one is where we started with limited terrain but we managed...NOW... there is a second park where difficulty and skills walk hand in hand..strength and endurance with a huge amount of fitness a necessity. The new park is catering for the riders who don't want "dumbing down"....where there are challenges of every natures yet.....still a handful seem to go back to the simpler...family friendly trails....ride them regularly and keep on complaining about the trails. I recently heard a guy say... but YOU chose to ride there so why complain....you could have come here and be challenged way beyond your ability.....it just makes me think we should just let them grow closed as it will make my life easier.

[(Deon)]

I heard the best trails were in KZN

[Guest Omega Man]

True that, pity when you only start with 1 'testicular' threshhold though

Ja I have that same problem. My excuse is that I'm a contract worker. No work no pay.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Omega Man

[Guest Omega Man]

I know now why I don't visit this site on a regular basis !!!! I want to know from you guys down in the CAPE..where there seems to be mountain bike trails that are out of this world. I can imagine that with the Trail building experience and talents of Mourant you have the best trails available !!! BUT how many of you have the choice of TWO trails within 4km of each other? The one is where we started with limited terrain but we managed...NOW... there is a second park where difficulty and skills walk hand in hand..strength and endurance with a huge amount of fitness a necessity. The new park is catering for the riders who don't want "dumbing down"....where there are challenges of every natures yet.....still a handful seem to go back to the simpler...family friendly trails....ride them regularly and keep on complaining about the trails. I recently heard a guy say... but YOU chose to ride there so why complain....you could have come here and be challenged way beyond your ability.....it just makes me think we should just let them grow closed as it will make my life easier.

Not sure what you are trying to say here

Edited September 15, 2013 by Omega Man

[nigelhicks]

I heard the best trails were in KZN

 

they sure are!

[nigelhicks]

I had a good laugh at the following twitter comment made by Simon Burney (the UCI Technical Delegate for XC) in Norway.

 

The XC track had a ton of berms and some doubles in it - but this convo with the Track designer about the one stepup jump was too classic.

Simon Burney ‏@SimonBurney12 Sep

Me to Hafjell course guy: "mate that step-up jump won't work, can you chop it & make it rollable?". Him: "OK. Can I write 'pussies' on it?"

[nigelhicks]

but yeah IMO no one should dumb trails down to suit their current riding ability.

Trails should be designed to be safe, but at the same time progress ones skills. You have A, B and C lines to assist in the riders having the best ride at their ability. If they try a section that is slightly above their ability and crash ... if there was another line that could have been used then the onus is on the rider not the track.

 

Thats why tables are generally used if jumps are built, as these are rideable for everyone no matter your skill level