Shocking truth about cycle light batteries. (Product information guide)

[extremelights]

Cycle Light batteries compare

 

www.extremelights.co.za

 

One of the most over looked and under appreciated element of a cycle light is the battery pack. For most there are only two factors when selecting a light; Price and lumen. The price is heavily influenced by the quality of the battery pack. Up to 2/3 of a lights cost can be attributed to the battery pack it self. That is why it is the prime element that is targeted when price is reduced. Regardless of how good a light is, if the battery pack is unable to provide sufficient power, the light is useless. Therefore the battery pack should not be ignored. In our opinion, the battery pack is even more important than lumen.

 

We have taken the time to test a few commonly available battery packs. At this stage, we have only compared 4 cell configurations. But the results should be representative of 6 and 8 cell configurations.

 

Test setup

 

http://www.extremelights.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/Test-Setup.jpg

Our test set up is a very simple construction. We have an analogue timer and a Lux sensor that is modified to be able to turn on the power to the timer when en pre-set lux measurement is reach. We aimed to have the timer stop running if the light output dropped below half the max. All the batteries are charged using the same charger. An Extreme 1400 light was connected to a fully charge battery and let the timer run in dark room. This way we get real world results.

 

The Extreme 1400 uses the latest Cree XM-L2 U2 LED but power wise it is about the same as most single LED Cree XM-L. The test should be representative of other Cree XM-L lights regarding runtime. It should be noted at this stage that most over claimed lights which are supplied with the cheaper lower capacity battery types do not power there LED fully. This is done to fool the user by extending the runtime of the low capacity batteries. Due to the nature of light it is difficult to notice if the output of a light is half with out directly comparing it.

 

 

Test subjects.

 

Seven batteries where tested in total. It was interesting to note that all of them where sold claiming to be water proof. We seriously doubt that the cardboard end of Type A will stand up against South African rain. Type A,B and C are covered with PVC heat shrink which will provide a minimal amount of water proofing.

The battery cost range from R150 up to R700. This is a very large jump and we where very interested to see our self if the high end batteries where 4.5x better.

Weight does not vary that much due to the battery configuration being the same. What does add 80g is the high quality pouch and water proof rubber housing. The lightest where 209g with the heavyset being 288g.

All Li-ion batteries should have some protection against over voltage during charging. Shockingly Type A had none and Type B was not functioning. The risk of setting your house on fire with li-ion batteries are real. For the supplier to provide batteries that are not protected is very irresponsible.

http://www.extremelights.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/Low-Quality-Batteries.jpghttp://www.extremelights.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/High-Qualty-batteries.jpg

http://extremelights.gocommerce.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/Cytcle-light-battery-test-results.jpg

 

*Capacity was calculated based on runtime and is estimations not actual. The runtime is determined by the build in protection of the battery and the lower limit set on the timer. Therefore the calculated capacity should just be used as an indication.

**These batteries did not have a low voltage cut of protection. The light where able to run for much longer due to this but the output of the light dropped to below pre set Lux level and the timing stopped. It is detrimental to run li-ion batteries below 30% of there capacity. The protection circuitry should prevent this.

 

Summery

The results show clearly that not all Li-ion batteries are equal. It will be hard to choose based on the advertised values. Taking in to consideration that the first 5 types all claim the same capacity and waterproofing but the results vary wildly. At the end it is clear that cost does affect performance. As can be seen a 4.6x an increase in cost results in a 6.6x increase in performance. That is if you ignore the improved pouch, waterproofing and battery protection circuitry.

The incredible runtime of the Panasonic cells took us of guard. We did not expect that at all and we repeated the test 3 times to verify.

 

What was very alarming was the missing protection circuitry in the cheaper batteries. This is very dangerous and irresponsible. Li-on batteries are very unstable at high voltage levels. To rely on the chargers ability to prevent over charging is very risky. Over charging li-ion batteries can explode or shoot out a flame jet. Easily setting any flammable material in proximity alight.

 

How do I know what to look for in a battery pack?

 

If you are dealing with a reputable dealer it would be easy to compare based on capacity(mAh and Voltage) values. But unethical advertisers easily over state there specification to make there product more attractive. This makes it nearly impossible to compare. At the end price and appearance are very good indicators. It is highly unlikely that a supplier would chose to drive up cost by providing high quality pouch and waterproofing with out addressing the quality of the batteries to some extend.

 

Lights equipped with the Panasonic cells are:

Extreme 1400 1000 lumen for 9h weighing 416g

Extreme 2k 1800 lumen for 4h weighing 399g

Extreme 3K 3000 lumen for 3h weighing 616g

Edited November 26, 2013 by extremelights

[Thug]

Interesting. Thanks.

[awesme]

Very interesting.

 

Would be great to now see you take say the panasonic pack and connect different brand head units onto it, with the same advertised Lu and report.

 

G

 

Cycle Light batteries compare

 

Link to source

 

One of the most over looked and under appreciated element of a cycle light is the battery pack. For most there are only two factors when selecting a light; Price and lumen. The price is heavily influenced by the quality of the battery pack. Up to 2/3 of a lights cost can be attributed to the battery pack it self. That is why it is the prime element that is targeted when price is reduced. Regardless of how good a light is, if the battery pack is unable to provide sufficient power, the light is useless. Therefore the battery pack should not be ignored. In our opinion, the battery pack is even more important than lumen.

 

We have taken the time to test a few commonly available battery packs. At this stage, we have only compared 4 cell configurations. But the results should be representative of 6 and 8 cell configurations.

 

Test setup

 

http://www.extremelights.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/Test-Setup.jpg

Our test set up is a very simple construction. We have an analogue timer and a Lux sensor that is modified to be able to turn on the power to the timer when en pre-set lux measurement is reach. We aimed to have the timer stop running if the light output dropped below half the max. All the batteries are charged using the same charger. An Extreme 1400 light was connected to a fully charge battery and let the timer run in dark room. This way we get real world results.

 

The Extreme 1400 uses the latest Cree XM-L2 U2 LED but power wise it is about the same as most single LED Cree XM-L. The test should be representative of other Cree XM-L lights regarding runtime. It should be noted at this stage that most over claimed lights which are supplied with the cheaper lower capacity battery types do not power there LED fully. This is done to fool the user by extending the runtime of the low capacity batteries. Due to the nature of light it is difficult to notice if the output of a light is half with out directly comparing it.

 

 

Test subjects.

 

Seven batteries where tested in total. It was interesting to note that all of them where sold claiming to be water proof. We seriously doubt that the cardboard end of Type A will stand up against South African rain. Type A,B and C are covered with PVC heat shrink which will provide a minimal amount of water proofing.

The battery cost range from R150 up to R700. This is a very large jump and we where very interested to see our self if the high end batteries where 4.5x better.

Weight does not vary that much due to the battery configuration being the same. What does add 80g is the high quality pouch and water proof rubber housing. The lightest where 209g with the heavyset being 288g.

All Li-ion batteries should have some protection against over voltage during charging. Shockingly Type A had none and Type B was not functioning. The risk of setting your house on fire with li-ion batteries are real. For the supplier to provide batteries that are not protected is very irresponsible.

http://www.extremelights.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/Low-Quality-Batteries.jpghttp://www.extremelights.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/High-Qualty-batteries.jpg

http://extremelights.gocommerce.co.za/wp-content/uploads/sites/66/2013/10/Cytcle-light-battery-test-results.jpg

 

*Capacity was calculated based on runtime and is estimations not actual. The runtime is determined by the build in protection of the battery and the lower limit set on the timer. Therefore the calculated capacity should just be used as an indication.

**These batteries did not have a low voltage cut of protection. The light where able to run for much longer due to this but the output of the light dropped to below pre set Lux level and the timing stopped. It is detrimental to run li-ion batteries below 30% of there capacity. The protection circuitry should prevent this.

 

Summery

The results show clearly that not all Li-ion batteries are equal. It will be hard to choose based on the advertised values. Taking in to consideration that the first 5 types all claim the same capacity and waterproofing but the results vary wildly. At the end it is clear that cost does affect performance. As can be seen a 4.6x an increase in cost results in a 6.6x increase in performance. That is if you ignore the improved pouch, waterproofing and battery protection circuitry.

The incredible runtime of the Panasonic cells took us of guard. We did not expect that at all and we repeated the test 3 times to verify.

 

What was very alarming was the missing protection circuitry in the cheaper batteries. This is very dangerous and irresponsible. Li-on batteries are very unstable at high voltage levels. To rely on the chargers ability to prevent over charging is very risky. Over charging li-ion batteries can explode or shoot out a flame jet. Easily setting any flammable material in proximity alight.

 

How do I know what to look for in a battery pack?

 

If you are dealing with a reputable dealer it would be easy to compare based on capacity(mAh and Voltage) values. But unethical advertisers easily over state there specification to make there product more attractive. This makes it nearly impossible to compare. At the end price and appearance are very good indicators. It is highly unlikely that a supplier would chose to drive up cost by providing high quality pouch and waterproofing with out addressing the quality of the batteries to some extend.

 

Lights equipped with the Panasonic cells are:

Extreme 1400 1000 lumen for 9h weighing 416g

Extreme 2k 1800 lumen for 4h weighing 399g

Extreme 3K 3000 lumen for 3h weighing 616g

[extremelights]

Very interesting.

 

Would be great to now see you take say the Panasonic pack and connect different brand head units onto it, with the same advertised Lu and report.

 

G

 

If it is a legit brand like Niteye, Gemini and the newer Magic-shine lights which claims 4400mAh@8.4V or 5200mAh@8.4V then the ratio should hold true. I know some brands use the Samsung batteries also. I have tested both so you can easily just take the runtime of your light / claimed capacity * 6800mAh. For example if you have a Magicshine MJ808E with a 4400mAh battery then the runtime should also be over 9h.

 

Here are more information on the cells that we now use.

 

Test / Review: Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh (Green) or on CPF Post 1 Post 2

Battery test/review summary

 

And here is the datasheet of the cells on Panasonic site.

[awesme]

Hi Extreme

 

think you misunderstood my request.

 

connect different brand head units, onto same pack, and see the performance of the head units. How they compare/actual to advertised Lu's.

 

Do you know which brands, i.e.: Magicshine uses which batteries?

 

G

 

If it is a legit brand like Niteye, Gemini and the newer Magic-shine lights which claims 4400mAh@8.4V or 5200mAh@8.4V then the ratio should hold true. I know some brands use the Samsung batteries also. I have tested both so you can easily just take the runtime of your light / claimed capacity * 6800mAh. For example if you have a Magicshine MJ808E with a 4400mAh battery then the runtime should also be over 9h.

 

Here are more information on the cells that we now use.

 

Test / Review: Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh (Green) or on CPF Post 1 Post 2

Battery test/review summary

 

And here is the datasheet of the cells on Panasonic site.

[scuzzy]

Does that also mean that all the other batteries that you sell are dangerous?

[extremelights]

Does that also mean that all the other batteries that you sell are dangerous?

 

We have gradually improved the quality of or products over the years. At this stage we only sell protected batteries that are very good quality. It was not easy because we had to build up our relations with the manufacturers. For most of last year and the beginning of this year the Extreme1200 came with the Type D.

 

Hi Extreme

 

think you misunderstood my request.

 

connect different brand head units, onto same pack, and see the performance of the head units. How they compare/actual to advertised Lu's.

 

Do you know which brands, i.e.: Magicshine uses which batteries?

 

G

 

I can't do that. Not in South Africa. The point was not to cross compare brand lights. The thread was started to highlight the huge difference in batteries types.

 

I would love to do it I must admit. Not all lights drives are same. Some are very good at converting the power without wasting energy. But in South Africa one can't compare a product to a competitor with out there consent. In this post I am not making the other suppliers known. it is a fine line but if I had lights heads you will recognize them easily.

 

Magichsine changed to BAK last year. It is a good brand. they also provided the MJ868 with Samsung batteries at some stage. Not sure if they still do.

Edited October 16, 2013 by extremelights

[awesme]

hehehe

 

I got the reputation for asking the impossible...

 

Good article still, so when we seeing you offer the option of the panasonic battery pack,

Why not divorce the battery and the light from each other, have the customer pick either.

 

I always think you can see the quality of the product by the packing the vendor uses to provide/keep the light in, cheap light, vendor don't care, expensive/good quality light, vendor provides a much better solution, proud of product.

 

G

 

We have gradually improved the quality of or products over the years. At this stage we only sell protected batteries that are very good quality. It was not easy because we had to build up our relations with the manufacturers. For most of last year and the beginning of this year the Extreme1200 came with the Type D.

 

 

 

I can't do that. Not in South Africa. The point was not to cross compare brand lights. The thread was started to highlight the huge difference in batteries types.

 

I would love to do it I must admit. Not all lights drives are same. Some are very good at converting the power without wasting energy. But in South Africa one can't compare a product to a competitor with out there consent.

 

Magichsine changed to BAK last year. It is a good brand. they also provided the MJ868 with Samsung batteries at some stage. Not sure if they still do.

[Shebeen]

As a scientific thinker I love seeing this sort of thing being done.

 

Was the test repeatable? ie. if you ran the same test twice did you get the same/similiar results?

 

Also, I'm a bit confused as to how the nameplate capacity of the panasonic's battery is so much lower than your estimated measurement(6800 vs 10 300)

[extremelights]

As a scientific thinker I love seeing this sort of thing being done.

 

Was the test repeatable? ie. if you ran the same test twice did you get the same/similiar results?

 

Also, I'm a bit confused as to how the nameplate capacity of the panasonic's battery is so much lower than your estimated measurement(6800 vs 10 300)

 

Hi. yes I did it twice per battery. That took very very long to do. I have been doing this tests for the last 2 weeks. Some of the batteries did not give very reliable results so I had to find others that gave the same result. I should do more than 2 test per battery but hell this is a hobby not a job.

 

I must admit that over running does call in to question the results. At this stage I can only speculate why that battery pack is preforming so well. I think it is due to the much lower cut off of the battery pack protection. The others seem to cut of at 6.2V where that pack runs to 5.1V. But there should not be that much power at the end of the run.

 

I know that capacity is based on current drain so I speculated that the effect of the current drain on the Panasonic results in less internal losses. But it should not be that much.

 

Remember I did not do current testing. The calculated capacity was based on the runtime which is effected by the cut off of the protection and the limit set to the sensor. I think I need to change that to % rather than mAh to be more clear. In this case I think it is more valid because for practical reasons I want to know how long the light will run.

 

I will run that test again with a few other Panasonic battery packs. just to make sure what is going on. But to sit for 9h and watch it is not fun.

 

It is really amazing how much better the high quality packs preform compared to the cheap ones. I never really believed the statement that some of that Chinese batteries are reclaimed cells from old laptops. But now i do you really get what you pay for.

 

I have orderer a Lux meter that can logger. And I have been building a integrating sphere. So the plan is to get it calibrated and then measure the lights outputs over time.

 

I wished that I had access to this type of batteries from day one.

[Brighter-Lights]

I suspect that the type A.B and C packs, most def A, had a weak cell. Discharging them on a balance tester would immediately shed some light. That one weak cell drops and bring the overall voltage down to trigger the protection circuit cutoff.

 

I've tested many china batteries and most were around 4000-4300mah for the 4 cell packs not bad for the price - but quite a few were rather disappointing.

 

This test seems a bit biased. Maybe test 5 batteries from each supplier/manufacturer - from the many many many batteries I've tested results like above were not a frequent occurrence.

 

If you want quality get something with Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, LG, Samsung cells...

[extremelights]

I suspect that the type A.B and C packs, most for sure Type A, had a weak cell. Discharging them on a balance tester would immediately shed some light. That one weak cell drops and bring the overall voltage down to trigger the protection circuit cutoff.

 

I've tested many china batteries and most were around 4000-4300mah for the 4 cell packs not bad for the price - but quite a few were rather disappointing.

 

This test seems a bit biased. Maybe test 5 batteries from each supplier/manufacturer - from the many many many batteries I've tested results like above were not a frequent occurrence.

 

If you want quality get something with Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, LG, Samsung cells...

 

Yes I agree. on this!!! get Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, LG, Samsung cells...

 

More test would be required to get a clear representation. But dead cells are common with the cheaper batteries. To order 10 and weed out 1/3 because they are defective is also not acceptable. And way to time consuming.

 

The fact that Type A, Type B and type C did not have working balancing circuitry would be to blame to some extent also. But even if I balance them now over a few cycle they will go out. Type A had the wires directly on the cells. Type C had one of those 18650 protection board only. So there is no balancing either.

 

If it was biased it would be coincidence. I got the idea a few weeks ago and ordered the cells i did not have. I charged them and tested them. I am sure if I did the test with the same cells again the results would be the similar.

 

I am pretty confident at this stage that none of the cheaper cells will beat the better quality cells. If they provide +4000mAh it would be a score but it seems rare these days.

[awesme]

Got to add

 

As a customer, I order and I want to use. Not order and hope all is good cells, and send back, the quality of the battery pack is as ordered, It is for the vendor/manufacturer to QA his product.

 

It should be evaluated as supplied, first time round. no 2nd chances.

 

Running the test 2/3 times to confirm results, for sure, order 2/3 batteries to pick the best one for the results, sorry no go.

 

G

[Pure Savage]

I know your guys prices are good but I found this on your website:

 

http://www.extremelights.co.za/shop/niteye-b20-cycle-light/

 

Price says free

[Pure Savage]

Oh wait, when you add it to cart the price chages to R2349.00.

[extremelights]

Oh wait, when you add it to cart the price chages to R2349.00.

 

Yea small bug in the code. it was fixed a while back. ;-)

Edited October 28, 2013 by extremelights