LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate)

[usxorf]

A bit off topic and technical but something I've been playing with lately is W' expenditure in a beta release of golden cheetah. Using an extended CP 3,5,15,60 min efforts etc) it guesses CP and W' in kj.

CP is somewhat synonymous with FTP and I use it for TSS, and pacing above threshold. W' expenditure is efforts above threshold.

 

Anyway, my max W' expenditure in a race on Sunday was 109‰,and I bonked at 50km. Was interesting to see that correlation, and it gives me an objective idea of how many "matches" I have.

 

Edited February 18, 2014 by usxorf

[jcza]

Yea...most notable is if you seach HC climbs or segments and browse....there is defnitely some dodgy data, but like you said....it will take a long time before its rectified so no one is blaming them. Strava is an awesome app and its free subscription offers alot considering its mahala

 

Do we have HC climbs in SA??

[Mileage]

The most important number to measure is the speed of the bike. If yours is higher than everyone else you will be ahead.

 

Don't get bogged down in magic numbers. For every threshold, lactate, HR, turn point, zone, etc there is a person who doesn't worry about any of that and wins. Also what is deemed critical today will be forgotten about in a few months/years as someone else invents/measures something new

[jcza]

If you're pressed for time then training in zones will lead to improvement.

[rouxtjie]

Do we have HC climbs in SA??

Yea...couple must mostly from bogus data...browse segments and take slider to HC

[rouxtjie]

If you're pressed for time then training in zones will lead to improvement.

1 word....tabata.

 

No fancy meters needed...just a indoor trainer and some blood sweat and tears.

[FARMBIKE]

Back to....... LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate)

 

Thanks for all the input guys, but I am a social/average (maybe dumb ) rider. I have lost you gurus way back allready .

 

Lets say we are the cyclist who do not use Strava (that often...) and do not measure power...........we want to use our normal Garmin/Bryton or watever just to know when we are reaching- or when we are in, our max (RED) Zone. I thought that you have to know your LTHR to know when you are pushing yourself into the red zone, for too long periods of time, and that will reflect on your recover time.......ie you will take longer to recover or even have longer lasting damage ?? On a training ride of in a race I just want to be able to manage myself and not to hurt myself and

be sorry afterwards.....if that make sense...?

[rouxtjie]

Back to....... LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate)

 

Thanks for all the input guys, but I am a social/average (maybe dumb ) rider. I have lost you gurus way back allready .

 

Lets say we are the cyclist who do not use Strava (that often...) and do not measure power...........we want to use our normal Garmin/Bryton or watever just to know when we are reaching- or when we are in, our max (RED) Zone. I thought that you have to know your LTHR to know when you are pushing yourself into the red zone, for too long periods of time, and that will reflect on your recover time.......ie you will take longer to recover or even have longer lasting damage ?? On a training ride of in a race I just want to be able to manage myself and not to hurt myself and

be sorry afterwards.....if that make sense...?

Do 3 min max aerobic capacity test to figure that out...google is your friend...Get your max HR for the 3 minutes.

 

But before you do that....let me try and sum up my posts in a one liner....forget HR zones and LTHR numbers...

 

Drop 7kg from your gut and see the difference that makes.

Edited February 18, 2014 by rouxtjie

[FARMBIKE]

Thanks Rouxtjie, I do hear what you say about dropping kg's but that is not my point....I can for sure drop weight but some of my mates have nothing to drop or they will fall through their own A--- !

 

It is not about performance or the difference, as you put it, or going faster, or not getting sooo tired....... it is about managing what I am doing, at all times during a ride......

[rouxtjie]

Thanks Rouxtjie, I do hear what you say about dropping kg's but that is not my point....I can for sure drop weight but some of my mates have nothing to drop or they will fall through their own A--- !

 

It is not about performance or the difference, as you put it, or going faster, or not getting sooo tired....... it is about managing what I am doing, at all times during a ride......

cool mate all I am saying is that if you want to measure and manage you need to measure and manage the right things. cycling is and will always be a power to weight ratio game. Influence those two and you will either go quicker or slower...get more tired or less tired. HR doesn't make the wheels turn...watts do...weight holds you back.

 

I don't see the point of managing HR...too many variables. Some may differ from me, but that is my experience. I know when I am burning matches...I don't need a HR monitor to tell me when I am doing it.

[usxorf]

Use the 2x20 min max effort test, avg of 2nd effort is lthr. Work your zones out from there. How much riding you do a week will determine how much time you spend in different zones. Less time = more hard.

[SwissVan]

I have been told that the most important "stat / number/info" to know is your personnel LTHR

 

Lets discuss LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate)...................

 

1)How important is this to know for the average MTB'er or Roadie ?

2) Where to go........... to get this info

3)When do you do the test ? ......When at your fittest ? or any time ?

 

Please contribute, and post your views and comments, for us average cyclist, to understand

 

1. If you are serious about improving your race fitness / performance it is one of the most important things to know.

 

2. The most accurate way to find out what your LTR is, is to use a blood lactate analyser. You could buy your own (Lactate.com) or go to a professional coach to do the test.

If you don’t want to pay for all that then you can do a relatively simple 30 minute time trail type test to accurately estimate it, to do this you will need at least a heart rate monitor with a recording function and a flat stead route that you can ride for +/- 30 minutes without having to slowdown etc...

EDIT: You can also use an IDT for this test.

 

3. Any time, but Ideally when you are well rested and before you engage in a specific training program.

 

 

Back to....... LTHR (Lactate Threshold Heart Rate)

 

Thanks for all the input guys, but I am a social/average (maybe dumb ) rider. I have lost you gurus way back allready .

 

Lets say we are the cyclist who do not use Strava (that often...) and do not measure power...........we want to use our normal Garmin/Bryton or watever just to know when we are reaching- or when we are in, our max (RED) Zone. I thought that you have to know your LTHR to know when you are pushing yourself into the red zone, for too long periods of time, and that will reflect on your recover time.......ie you will take longer to recover or even have longer lasting damage ?? On a training ride of in a race I just want to be able to manage myself and not to hurt myself and

be sorry afterwards.....if that make sense...?

 

You can use your LTH to calculate training zones, much like people use their max heart rate except that you don't do a max HR test but a LTH test which is less stressful.

 

Knowing what your LTHR is can also help you ride at the right pace during an event / race i.e. not to make the mistake of riding to fast to early or even riding to slow....

 

Typically a well trained cyclist should be able to ride at or slightly above their LTHR for 2 - 3 hours.

 

To train yourself to ride at LTHR you need to incorporate specific LTH efforts into your training routine, these can be quite difficult and should be done gradually over a period of time, starting off with shorter efforts and increasing them gradually as you get accustomed to it (over a few months). Typically done once or twice a week a few days apart and with a easy recovery day afterwards

Edited February 18, 2014 by SwissVan

[V12man]

Do we have HC climbs in SA??

 

Yes - not too many, and not officially recognised as HC (mostly because they have to race over them to decide that in an official UCI race... or some such bs...

[V12man]

Thanks Rouxtjie, I do hear what you say about dropping kg's but that is not my point....I can for sure drop weight but some of my mates have nothing to drop or they will fall through their own A--- !

 

It is not about performance or the difference, as you put it, or going faster, or not getting sooo tired....... it is about managing what I am doing, at all times during a ride......

 

Buy a proper power meter - that's the tool that does not lie - your heart rate can mislead you somewhat.... sometimes.- and can easily lead to underperformance... especially when you are watching it...

[SwissVan]

Buy a proper power meter - that's the tool that does not lie - your heart rate can mislead you somewhat.... sometimes.- and can easily lead to underperformance... especially when you are watching it...

 

That's all very true and well.... but its so damn expensive and still complicated for cycling even if you only got one bike...heaven forbid if you have more bikes (TT, MTB and road).

 

I guess the runners / swimmers / biathletes etc... out there must be wondering when someone will invent a running power meter capable shoe / costume / ski so they can eliminate underperforming during training

 

wink wink

[Cyclewizz]

I agree with SwissVan.

 

Everybody knows that Power Meters are the way to go but their expense puts many of us off.

 

I think a lot can be achieved using LTHR.

Yes there are more accurate ways but as a starting point I think it's a good place to start.

Most of us already have HR monitors so there is no additional costs.

 

To the OP:

Buy Joe's book. Read it, follow it and you'll improve !!!