Hairy Posted June 23, 2014 Share Hmmm interesting, allrighty then... ..but 29ers just roles over obstacles, not talking jumps or DH, much better then the smaller wheels in marathon races... Perhaps the majority of people riding their 29ers in stage races should demand their money back immediately and go out and buy 650b's if that was true? Been riding 29ers for a couple of years now, if it was that much harder riding 29ers, "because of the BIGGER drive train", I should fly on a smaller wheel size because I'm fit now and my little legs are stronger now? What BS, really... Also, not all 29ers ride the same at all. The parts (wheels, gearing, forks, etc) does make a difference but not that much. e.g. i feel much more comfortable on my Ritchey compared to my Niner or my Sawyer. I had top of the range parts on the Niner, but was not 100% comfortable. On the Ritchey i didn't have top of the range parts on it, but i was 100% comfortable on it, even riding ss rigid and completing the mtn marathon races on it with no hassle. Now i have swapped the parts out between the Ritchey and the Niner and the Ritchey is 100% comfortable, but now I have gears and less rest on the downhills. There will always be haters. At the end, ride what you feel comfortable with and what's best for your type of discipline. Don't believe some of the "technical" dribble from some idiots who don't ride 29ers, It IS that simple.Thing is, RTFM - it's true. The wheel on the bike is effectively the final drive ratio, and forms a direct link in the "gearbox" of a bike. The bigger a wheel is (given the same size cassette & chainring etc) the more force (power) you will have to put into the cranks in order to for it to turn a full revolution. That's why it's apples and pears. Yes, a 29er wheel will roll over undulations in the road / gravel more efficiently than a sixer, with the same geometry. But if you're on a flat surface, and you have a 29er and a 26er next to each other - for a given speed, in the same "gear ratio" (ignoring the wheel / final drive element) - say - 42/11 - the 29er rider will have a slower cadence than the 26er rider. That doesn't mean that the 29er is faster, because even though the cadences are different, the power outputs remain constant across the 2 bikes. If you want to go faster, you'll have to crank harder, which means more power and more cadence. If you really wanted to compare attainable speeds on a niner and sixer, you'd have to change the size of the chainrings on one of the bikes to compensate for the difference in wheelsize. BUT - you'd still be expending the same energy as each other if you were going the same speed. The difference comes in with the slight benefit that the larger wheels have ito angle of approach on jeep track - they do roll easier, that's plain physics. But still - it's a slight difference, which would be easily overcome with training or a different gearing on the sixer.Lots of smack talk homie... Anyway, a very unscientific comparison, that is a fun read anyway http://reviews.mtbr.com/26er-or-29er-which-was-faster-at-the-24-hours-in-the-old-pueblo Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted June 23, 2014 Share Did a ride last week with a mate, and both of us were on 29ers, his a Titan Carbon Race, mine a GT Zaskar Pro. we then swapped for a bit. Compared to mine, his steered like a donkey and was lank uncomfortable! My Zaskar is as nimble(for my style of riding) as my full sus 26er. built mine from the ground up, so i have the parts on there that i actually want on there. If you think that when you put the 26 and 29 together, and you apply the same power to the crank , that there'll be no difference, then you've confused yourself. The "just get stronger and ride more" statement is also getting old. If you dont ride or like 29ers, theres really noting wrong with that. Its got nothing to do with buying into the "bs marketing". My money....my time....I determine how I enjoy riding, what i enjoy riding. Period. 26...27.5....29....it doesnt really matter....just enjoy the ride....whatever you choose.http://reviews.mtbr.com/the-angry-singlespeeder-%E2%80%93-be-happy-with-what-you-have Fabian46 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 23, 2014 Share Lots of smack talk homie... Anyway, a very unscientific comparison, that is a fun read anyway http://reviews.mtbr....-the-old-pueblo LOL. I was providing backup to the Lefty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathrix Posted June 23, 2014 Share And then you get the "expert" LBS salesmen who are like racehorses. Oblivious to everything but what is in front of them. South Africa has more XC Marathon races then anywhere else in the world i believe, so LBS will punt 29" bikes and that's almost all you see when you watch the biggest mtb race in the world live on tv. The problem is that not the right questions get asked by the client or the shop owner/assistant and then the wrong bikes are sold. That's why it's so important to go to a LBS and have a good relationship with them and who are experienced enough to explain to you the technical stuff, without the BS, so that the client can try and understand while this person has absolutely no riding/racing experience, but that's also much easier said then done. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathrix Posted June 23, 2014 Share Lots of smack talk homie... Anyway, a very unscientific comparison, that is a fun read anyway http://reviews.mtbr....-the-old-pueblo Haha, yes, no technical BS, just my experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabian46 Posted June 23, 2014 Share I actually disagree here... I think it's because most bike shops don't see beyond marathon riding, and force the 29er issue because that's all THEY know and there can't possibly be anything else, can there!? Yes and no. I think they see the bigger picture. Marathon type riding is big in SA and growing, and anyone can get into, and do so with minimal risk...which generally means repeat sales. You cannot expect a LBS not to go the route that makes them money. It will cost them money to push the less mainstream stuff. You cant blame the LBS for that. Harley Davidson had a similar issue with Buell Motorcycles. They had to pump millions into getting Buell on the same level as Harley Davidson, and in the end they just binned it and stuck to what they did best....Harleys. Erik Buell then started up Buell on his own, and now has somewhat of a cult following. The price and reward for being different. I personally would not recommend a first timer to get into DH or "Enduro". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 23, 2014 Share Yes and no. I think they see the bigger picture. Marathon type riding is big in SA and growing, and anyone can get into, and do so with minimal risk...which generally means repeat sales. You cannot expect a LBS not to go the route that makes them money. It will cost them money to push the less mainstream stuff. You cant blame the LBS for that. Harley Davidson had a similar issue with Buell Motorcycles. They had to pump millions into getting Buell on the same level as Harley Davidson, and in the end they just binned it and stuck to what they did best....Harleys. Erik Buell then started up Buell on his own, and now has somewhat of a cult following. The price and reward for being different. I personally would not recommend a first timer to get into DH or "Enduro". 100%. But then I'd also not suggest a first timer buy a dedicated XC race bike. Somewhere in the middle - 120 - 140mm suspension, a slack-ish head angle and something with wider bars. You want them to gain confidence, not be scared of going down a piece of singletrack 'cos the bike is skittier than a cat on tik. KENDA, Fabian46, Headshot and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rouxtjie Posted June 23, 2014 Share Yes and no. I think they see the bigger picture. Marathon type riding is big in SA and growing, and anyone can get into, and do so with minimal risk...which generally means repeat sales. You cannot expect a LBS not to go the route that makes them money. It will cost them money to push the less mainstream stuff. You cant blame the LBS for that. Harley Davidson had a similar issue with Buell Motorcycles. They had to pump millions into getting Buell on the same level as Harley Davidson, and in the end they just binned it and stuck to what they did best....Harleys. Erik Buell then started up Buell on his own, and now has somewhat of a cult following. The price and reward for being different. I personally would not recommend a first timer to get into DH or "Enduro".Nevermind the lack of terrain and venues for other disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanievb Posted June 23, 2014 Share 100%. But then I'd also not suggest a first timer buy a dedicated XC race bike. Somewhere in the middle - 120 - 140mm suspension, a slack-ish head angle and something with wider bars. You want them to gain confidence, not be scared of going down a piece of singletrack 'cos the bike is skittier than a cat on tik. glad i finished my coffee Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoBigBen Posted June 23, 2014 Share glad i finished my coffee I hadn't, damn you Captain Captain Fastbastard Mayhem and fanievb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 23, 2014 Share I hadn't, damn you Captain Glad to be of service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JannievanZyl Posted June 23, 2014 Share That is quite simply an Argument from incredulity (you don't understand the underlying principle, so you try and discredit it by throwing out something so ridiculous in order to undermine the physics behind the initial argument - IE: You don't understand, it, so it must be wrong) Quite simple, really. A frame large enough to support a grown man / woman, based on 20" rims would not only look ridiculous, it'd have its own inherent handling characteristics that would make it far twitchier and less stable than a 26" bike.So you basically agree with my point then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoLefty!! Posted June 23, 2014 Share I think you missed the point... Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted June 24, 2014 Share So you basically agree with my point then.No. Not At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieterg Posted June 24, 2014 Share Its not about about The Bike ,You still Need to Train Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockCoach Posted June 24, 2014 Share I personally would not recommend a first timer to get into DH or "Enduro". That depends on the person and their mindset (or whether they are open minded). I've helped newbies buy long travel bikes and get up to Enduro level in a couple of months - including a few Hubbers... The fact is that even if they don't start off riding the longer travel bike well, the stable geometry with wide bars and dropper post helps them gain confidence and progress very quickly. XC orientated students never progress as quickly. Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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