Trail running shoes

[SeaBee]

Pieter, I can't wait... sitting with a slight Achilles niggle and suspect it is (contrary to popular belief!) from running in shoes with too much drop. And not biomechanically (I know that "should be better" on the Achilles), I suspect the heels are irritating my Achilles - not chafing, just pressing. 

 

Slickandtyred, if that comment regarding feet width was for me - thanks, but I do not have wide feet at all. That said - my now tired NB road shoes are still my favorites. Plenty wide... but not required.

[MeridaHFS]

Have tried most of the salomon range and must admit the XD3APro's were by far the most comfy and hard wearing (except the soles which tend to wear down faster than others). The new range from salomon seems a bit plasticky to me. 

[dee_biker]

I have slowly, last year or so, moved to minimal shoes for running. Only started running again in the last couple of months. After buying the minimal Vivo Trail Freaks, I stuggle to grab any of my other running shoes when I hit the trails.

 

Now have about 100 Trail km's on them, and by far the most comfortable, no-nonsense, uncomplicated shoes I've ever had.

 

Will never go back to "soft"-shoe-world. But agree it is not for everyone.

[Fisan]

Now have about 100 Trail km's on them, and by far the most comfortable, no-nonsense, uncomplicated shoes I've ever had.

 

Yooh. I'm still a bit scared of those shoes. How does the Trail Freaks respond to rocky trails - especially descents? Not trying to argue the shoes, just wondering about performance?

 

Have tried most of the salomon range and must admit the XD3APro's were by far the most comfy and hard wearing (except the soles which tend to wear down faster than others). The new range from salomon seems a bit plasticky to me. 

 

Like shoe brands, they either work for you or they don't. IMO Salomon shoes aren't correctly marketed in SA. The major franchises keep pushing the Speedcross range - it is like a Spez Epic: for many a trusted brand, good performance , nice looking, etc shoe. A while later the complaints will come flowing in about the fast wearing soles. But it is a wet-terrain  "fell" shoe after all - the reason why its so popular in Europe.

 

I currently have a plasticky pair of Sense Pros, and it's been great so far (lots of PBs!!). But only time will tell about durability and long term usage.

 

Pieter, I can't wait... sitting with a slight Achilles niggle and suspect it is (contrary to popular belief!) from running in shoes with too much drop. And not biomechanically (I know that "should be better" on the Achilles), I suspect the heels are irritating my Achilles - not chafing, just pressing. 

ed.

 

Keep us updated on the progress 

[Fisan]

Oh, and for the die-hard ASICS fans, I see you can buy Onitsuka Tiger's on Zando now...

[Pieter1]

Koei the shoes are pretty rad on dry rocks. Suppose most if not all shoes will slip on wet rocks. On desents they are also awesome. I honestly cant fault them. The in contact feeling you have with the earth is awesome. Check on the native sport site mabey they have them on sale. I got mine for R350...

[droenn]

Decided to go with some Salomon Fellraisers.

 

Might be a bit overboard in the aggressive grip for dry and loose Western Cape conditions, but others swear by them...

 

Will test them out shortly

[Rocket-Boy]

I have slowly, last year or so, moved to minimal shoes for running. Only started running again in the last couple of months. After buying the minimal Vivo Trail Freaks, I stuggle to grab any of my other running shoes when I hit the trails.

 

Now have about 100 Trail km's on them, and by far the most comfortable, no-nonsense, uncomplicated shoes I've ever had.

 

Will never go back to "soft"-shoe-world. But agree it is not for everyone.

Im still in two minds about minimal shoes. 

I have a pair of Newton's that I use for anything up to 10k runs due to them being only slightly heavier than air!

My long distance shoes though are the most padded ones you are likely to find due to my heavy overpronation.

Not keen to run minimal for longer stuff and risk injuries.

[Pieter1]

I see Salomon have a model out called Wing or something. Apparently its made for decending. Can't remember where I read about them tho.

[Fisan]

I see Salomon have a model out called Wing or something. Apparently its made for decending. Can't remember where I read about them tho.

 

Thing wings are Salomon's range of "traditional" shoes: stability, cushioning and high heel to toe drop. They're a good start for traditional roadies who want to go a bit offroad.

 

They are great shoes, but I prefer trail shoes with lower profile - better for technical stuff and more control (mid to forefoot landing) on those long striding descents.

[droenn]

Decided to go with some Salomon Fellraisers.

 

Might be a bit overboard in the aggressive grip for dry and loose Western Cape conditions, but others swear by them...

 

Will test them out shortly

 

Ok I've done 45 km with them now. Took me a while to get used to lower profile (or heel drop or whatever) and less cushioning, but now they are starting to make more sense.

 

The grip is still overkill, think I'll look into other Salomon models next purchase, or Saucony Peregrines.

[Fisan]

Ok I've done 45 km with them now. Took me a while to get used to lower profile (or heel drop or whatever) and less cushioning, but now they are starting to make more sense.

 

The grip is still overkill, think I'll look into other Salomon models next purchase, or Saucony Peregrines.

 

+1 On the Peregrines. Old models always go for dirt cheap and they are damn good shoes. The thing with Salomon shoes are....they're not really meant for SA terrain - especially the WC terrain which is very dry with jagged-ish rocks. 

 

As mentioned before - the Speedcross and Fellraiser shoes are actually meant for Fellrunning - AKA running on softer / wetter terrain which requires aggressive grip. Both are excellent shoes - and I like the Fellraiser especially - but the tread will run down very quickly. But while they last, they'll be @#!% fast.

 

The Sense (Mantra, Pro, Ultra, etc) range on the other hand does not like the really tough terrain. The uppers wear out before the grip.

 

BUT, when my shoes are due for replacement....I'll stick with the Salomons. Can't seem to find a worthy replacement...yet.

[SeaBee]

My shoe story went an interesting direction. 

 

My SpeedCross was starting to kill my Achilles, as mentioned above. Too much drop. I had the Vivo's, but first tried to remedy my actual issue on the road. So, Kinvara to the rescue (4mm drop road shoe). Love them! But more trails over the last couple of months and... Speedcrosses are now history. Toe nails and Achilles are immensely glad! Toe nails started getting issues as soon as the runs started getting longer. So, I got the Sense Pros and absolutely love them. 

 

Went in to get the Peregrines, actually, but walked out with Sense Pro's. I just preferred the flatter side to side feeling of the Pro's. The Peregrines felt much more shaped and "supportive", where the SP's felt open and flat. Loved them from the first k! Zero issues thusfar. 

 

BTW, Koei, where did you find Mantras around here?

 

Yes, I still have the Trail Freaks, but will get into them once I have put this idiot marathon decision behind me. Don't want to run any risks at this late stage of that little fight...

Whilst on this - not sure how often dee_biker frequents this thread, but know him and a couple of things on his behalf:

He does not run long distances at this stage, from memory longest was a 15k. Also, I cannot recall him having gone too hectic over rocks, but where he does, he says you learn to look - obviously you do feel the sharp rocks through vivo's or vibrams (his other joy in life!)

 

BUT - as a guy that completed Comrades a number of times and stopped running due to persistent injuries, for the first time he is now running without an injury, worry free, just go.  

We talked about it just the other day and the "bonus" he had was having stopped completely for a number (3 to 4) of years. When he restarted now, he started with the Vivo, so he was forced to run correctly and the correct muscles strengthened as a result.

 

From a guy who was a severe over pronator, with special inserts in his shoes and all, he is now just running minimal shoes - without any issues, where previously he had issues even running with all the inserts, protection, stabilization and whatever else. Fast and injury free...

 

I think he'd like a very low drop shoe for longer runs where he might need more protection. And when I was shopping around, he got the itch. But simply could not find a shoe that is in any way as comfortable as the vivo's. Last time I checked, he's stopped looking and even got the 5-fingers out for road runs!

[dee_biker]

My shoe story went an interesting direction. 

 

My SpeedCross was starting to kill my Achilles, as mentioned above. Too much drop. I had the Vivo's, but first tried to remedy my actual issue on the road. So, Kinvara to the rescue (4mm drop road shoe). Love them! But more trails over the last couple of months and... Speedcrosses are now history. Toe nails and Achilles are immensely glad! Toe nails started getting issues as soon as the runs started getting longer. So, I got the Sense Pros and absolutely love them. 

 

Went in to get the Peregrines, actually, but walked out with Sense Pro's. I just preferred the flatter side to side feeling of the Pro's. The Peregrines felt much more shaped and "supportive", where the SP's felt open and flat. Loved them from the first k! Zero issues thusfar. 

 

BTW, Koei, where did you find Mantras around here?

 

Yes, I still have the Trail Freaks, but will get into them once I have put this idiot marathon decision behind me. Don't want to run any risks at this late stage of that little fight...

 

Whilst on this - not sure how often dee_biker frequents this thread, but know him and a couple of things on his behalf:

He does not run long distances at this stage, from memory longest was a 15k. Also, I cannot recall him having gone too hectic over rocks, but where he does, he says you learn to look - obviously you do feel the sharp rocks through vivo's or vibrams (his other joy in life!)

 

BUT - as a guy that completed Comrades a number of times and stopped running due to persistent injuries, for the first time he is now running without an injury, worry free, just go.  

We talked about it just the other day and the "bonus" he had was having stopped completely for a number (3 to 4) of years. When he restarted now, he started with the Vivo, so he was forced to run correctly and the correct muscles strengthened as a result.

 

From a guy who was a severe over pronator, with special inserts in his shoes and all, he is now just running minimal shoes - without any issues, where previously he had issues even running with all the inserts, protection, stabilization and whatever else. Fast and injury free...

 

I think he'd like a very low drop shoe for longer runs where he might need more protection. And when I was shopping around, he got the itch. But simply could not find a shoe that is in any way as comfortable as the vivo's. Last time I checked, he's stopped looking and even got the 5-fingers out for road runs!

 

Seabee, you know me too well... I read a couple of reviews about the new Kinvara's. I suspect, having used them in the past when I did speed and interval training, that I will probably look at something like that when I decide to pick up the miles again.

 

Like you said, I cannot see myself going back to 10mm drop Pegasus / Nimbus type shoes. It's those shoes that started all the problems for me.

 

I know we are not all Anton Krupicka's, but that oke runs 160km trail races with New Balance Minimus shoes, which tells me that if you train your legs sufficiently, it is possible to do proper distance trail runs in minimal shoes.

 

Like Seabee said, I used to have "flat feet" which the podiatrist said will NEVER run in Neutral shoes, never mind FiveFingers. I average around 40km's a week, which is by no means a lot, but have absolutely NO ISSUES when I do... IN FIVEFINGERS!!!

 

Good luck to the original OP, finding the right shoes is often a very costly and frustrating experience...

 

Newtons are not minimal BTW, they have low drop, but by no means minimal.

Edited October 27, 2015 by dee_biker

[Pah Bear]

Running shoe advice is probably one of those subjects where one has to take all comments with a pinch of salt. We are all different and what suits one could be disastrous for another.

 

When the OP asked what is the difference between "minimalist and normal running" I immediately wanted to chip in and say stay clear of barefoot running shoes until you know what its all about. But ... having said that if you starting it's probably the bast place to start if you become familiar with the basic requirements.

 

My running story is also a long one, so won't bore you with the details, but as a heavy pronator, I also ran in heavy plodders for years and picked up my unfair share of injuries. Went to a barefoot workshop once and it all made sense.

 

Today I only run in Vivo barefoot shoes. Have changed all my shoes to flat NO HEEL RAISE footwear (even my hiking boots) to make sure I stretch my Achilles and prevent shortening problems. In my transition to Vivo, my calves were way to lazy and weak, so had to take it very easy and start slow with short runs only.

 

Today I am really enjoying my running, consciously working on my form. In a nutshell it boils down to -

Run upright (don't chase your head)

Leg circles behind not in front

Strike beneath your body not in front

Run a high cadence - 170 to 190s/m (I just about manage 17)

 

Long story short - Listen to advice, do your research and make a decision. AND START SLOW.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Pah Bear

[Pah Bear]

Oh forgot to add that with Vivo, the greatest thing is the end of frequent shoe replacements when heels strike areas are run down and "mid-soles" collapse.

 

Forefoot running is also the most sensible way to run trails. Running on your forefoot just give you so much more stability when you need it most, on uneven surfaces.