SANS Parks Tokai MTB price increase

[Flowta]

Yeah, unfortunately. But... We don't know what the stakeholders are saying / implementing behind the scenes. Which is still part of the problem.

 

Implementing?? Nothing

[Pappa Bear]

They represent anyone who is interested in MTB at Tokai. There is no fee structure, i.e. only donations, so how can you record the members.

 No they don't.  If I ride at Tokai where do I say that they may represent me?  I mean its not like they say you will be represented by Tokai MTB, or the activity card.

 

I am now nit-picking and this is going in circles :-) 

 

Can somebody please start a positive Tokai threat for a change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hairy]

 No they don't.  If I ride at Tokai where do I say that they may represent me?  I mean its not like they say you will be represented by Tokai MTB, or the activity card.

 

I am now nit-picking and this is going in circles :-) 

 

Can somebody please start a positive Tokai threat for a change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why have positive people threat Tokai 

[Goosebay]

Not wanting to stir - but seeing there are so many experts on this forum that often print misleading statements.

 

This has been going on for, what..almost a decade already!  A large amount of information was gathered by ex foresters (who loved and still love fynbos) and scientists who where in my opinion more broadminded than some of the sanpark's scientists that completely rubbished the public's desire to participate in the process of deciding what is best for those living in the area. 

 

I remember a party of government representatives flying down for a meeting with the then urban forest group as an appeasement exercise, costing the taxpayer.   Peoples opinions being rubbished in the newspapers (2010).  It seems as if this whole process was decided upon by a small group in government and will be completed no matter what.  The cyclists, walkers, older generation hikers, mushroom collectors, birders are tolerated and occasionally appeased, but not listened to.  Soap box heros often complicated the picture - often aiding the politicians in confusing the picture with half truths.

 

If there is to a public outcry - I will be inclined to support it

[Headshot]

Tim, the point is also that you need to let your appointed representatives do what they were nominated to do by us, and not undermine the process yourself. IOW - give Deon, Dan, Duane, Vince and Jason the fodder they need so that the collective ire can be focused properly. At the moment, you're creating noise instead if helping the cause. Which is something you argued very loudly for last year before the nominations came about.

 

TOKAI Mtb, PPA, Table Mountain bikers and so on are our representatives. Send letters to them which they can collate and send in turn to parks. Don't dilute the process.

 

Myles, the fodder is there but we see precious little feedback showing it is being used. This thread is an example. I agree that the various forums should engage but then I'd like to see feedback. Kandui is very good at communicating  - his example should be followed.

 

Instead its up to us to confirm the price increase and even when there is widespread dissatisfaction with it, Tokai MTB is here explaining away, yet again, about moves afoot etc etc etc. and not raising a complaint on behalf of its members against the unilateral, not consulted price increase. 

 

Its all good and well to keep the relationship happy, but there needs to be distance between Tokai MTB and the TMNP officials for all sorts of very good reasons. The Toklai MTB  has a role to play as an activist representative for rider interests, at least thats what I signed up for.

 

I am not sure that TMNP get a very clear picture of how they are perceived by the public and perhaps they need to. 

 

As to harming the "cause"  - Huh?

[Headshot]

Why have positive people threat Tokai 

 

 

This is positive - we all love Tokai and would love it to be even better or we would not be here.

[Hairy]

This is positive - we all love Tokai and would love it to be even better or we would not be here.

Nooit headshot ... it was a play on the other chaps email, not to derail getting those who extort the users at Tokai, to actually work with or rather for us vs them being the great overlord Darthvader.

 

And it is Friday

[Freex]

Clearly SANS Parks did not apply their minds to the 33% increase and if they did, they have, done it by devious means. There is now split between the the HAVES (Annual Activity card holders) and the HAVE NOT'S (Casual Riders). The question now is, are the Activity card holders willing to  BURN their dom Pass cards in front of the SANS parks office in protest of the increase.

[marko35s]

Clearly SANS Parks did not apply their minds to the 33% increase and if they did, they have, done it by devious means. There is now split between the the HAVES (Annual Activity card holders) and the HAVE NOT'S (Casual Riders). The question now is, are the Activity card holders willing to  BURN their dom Pass cards in front of the SANS parks office in protest of the increase.

No.

And what a bloody stupid thing to suggest.

They sure are going to feel the heat when a bunch of people that have paid a year in advance then burn their cards and stop using the place. SAN parks (not SANS as seems to have taken root in this thread)then have less people to deal with despite having their money, that's a win for them.

All the talk of toy throwing, disobedience and small scale insurrection is just daft - the committee in its current guise has been around for all of ten months, how about giving them some proper time to sort things out.

[Freex]

No.

And what a bloody stupid thing to suggest.

They sure are going to feel the heat when a bunch of people that have paid a year in advance then burn their cards and stop using the place. SAN parks (not SANS as seems to have taken root in this thread)then have less people to deal with despite having their money, that's a win for them.

All the talk of toy throwing, disobedience and small scale insurrection is just daft - the committee in its current guise has been around for all of ten months, how about giving them some proper time to sort things out.

It's a pity you didn't see the humour in my unlikely suggestion. Excuse me.

 

I agree that this has to be sorted out and I do hope there is someone on the committee  will point out that R60 is not in line with similar MTB venues. I cannot imagine promising young cyclist that may cycle from outlying suburbs (dare I say townships) would be happy to pay this ridiculous entry fee.

 

The problem is that the local MTB fraternity presently have very little leverage on SANS Parks as they are  mandated is to protect the Flora and Fauna and thus MTB will always be unwelcome. Only once we can get the (Lazy) politicians to see the virtues of cycling (and not only soccer) will attitudes change and the park will once return be a free public utility for all. 

[Guest]

I remember it being R2.00 entry. That was around 1997 or 1998.

 

The price went up to R5.00 and it was a shocker...

Those were good days too.

Remember it like yesterday

[kandui]

Here's a theory.

There is currently a R50/participant levy for event organizers to pay to San Parks,if they host an event in the park.

That amount is set to increase to R60 in the new year.

They way I see it, the event levy is nothing other than a day permit levied on event participants.

A clever organizer argues that he'll rather buy R45 day permits and use those to cover all the entrants.

San Parks close the loophole by jacking the day permit to R60.

 

I think it's not that far fetched. There has been talk of San Parks wanting to charge the Cape Town Cycle Tour a R60/rider fee in 2015.

36000 riders x R60 or 36000 riders x R45. That's a big difference.

In case you're wondering how San Parks can charge a road race an event fee.

The road passes through San Parks land after Simon's Town and they own/manage the land 6m left and 6m right of the white line.

The water points supposedly encroach on their land. So it's not the riders, it's the Coke truck at Smits and at Red Hill.

Just a theory !

[i24]

We have an immediate problem. We being the regulars who hold activity cards, as well as SANParks who have the mandate to look after the mountain.

 

The problem is that R60 day fee is just not workable. Everybody who cycles in TNMP is expected to either hold an activity card or pay for a day permit. But the cost of the permit is way out of line. The permits are only sold at a few locations. There are some cycling areas in TMNP that have no entry control and are many km's away from the nearest day permit sales point. The one gate that is manned is sometimes left unattended.

 

SANPark would like cyclists to buy activity cards. I think most of the regulars do this anyway. But those who live a bit further away, road cyclists and commuters who don't regularly ride mountain bikes, scholars, children, students, family, wives and girl friends will all be faced with a dilemma: Pay for an overpriced day permit, or go out of their way to a TMNP office, during office hours, to buy an activity card that they might never use again.

 

It is just not going to happen. We are just going to end up many more cyclists on the mountain who don't pay anything. This is bad news for everyone, SANParks, Tokai MTB, Table Mountain MTB and our environment. It is not the loss of revenue, it is a breakdown in the trust which is essential for keeping the mountain open to cyclists.

 

Are there any SANParks people on the Hub? Or how are we going to pass this message on to them ...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Or how are we going to pass this message on to them ...

It's already being done at the moment, by Deon (Pain or Shine) Dan @ Iride Africa and the other guys on the TMMTB Forum. As he's said before, there is ongoing consultation with them - unfortunately the guys down here don't have that much power ito setting fees etc, from what I've seen...

 

Anyway. There have been a few posts from Deon outlining the fact that Sandra Hollerman (the person in charge at Tokai) REALLY wants this to be an MTB mecca. 

 

The existing committee on Tokai MTB has been in place for just 10 months - in the timeline according to Parks, that is a miniscule amount of time. Yes, we need to work together. Yes, we need to enforce (or convince) change in mindsets. Use the existing infrastructure (Tokai MTB / PPA / Table Mountain Bikers) to push that agenda forwards. 

 

Now is not the time for pitchforks and protests - now is the time to be organised, and act like a bunch of civilized patrons who want to be taken care of. Change through negotiation, not protest. We are not AMCU

[i24]

There has been talk of San Parks wanting to charge the Cape Town Cycle Tour a R60/rider fee in 2015.

 

In case you're wondering how San Parks can charge a road race an event fee.

The road passes through San Parks land after Simon's Town and they own/manage the land 6m left and 6m right of the white line. The water points supposedly encroach on their land. So it's not the riders, it's the Coke truck at Smits and at Red Hill.

I would like to see SANParks or Pedal Power go public on this - it could end up in an interesting court case. (Not that it would be a bad thing for some of the Argus revenues to go to looking after the mountain but those funds are more likely to end up being spent in Pretoria.)

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I would like to see SANParks or Pedal Power go public on this - it could end up in an interesting court case. (Not that it would be a bad thing for some of the Argus revenues to go to looking after the mountain but those funds are more likely to end up being spent in Pretoria.)

 

 

Not if there are conditions attached to the fees they are demanding. If, for example, CTCT demands that the amount that they are paying across goes in to managed MTB projects / activities on the mountain, for example, then it would be a good thing for us.