Another Adverse Analytical Finding

[sdaghers]

Just a silly question - not causing *** just checking perspective...assuming they had all served their time would you:

 

Let a convicted paedophile look after your children?

Let a convicted accountant look after your business?

Let a convicted investment broker look after your retirement money?

 

It's not like we're stopping the man from doing his passion. We'd just not like to race against people that cheat.

Yoh!!!

 

Don't you think you are taking this just a little too far?

[Eldron]

Yoh!!!

Don't you think you are taking this just a little too far?

It's not the severity of the crimes I'm trying to convey - I'm trying to personalise it. It's easy enough to say "let them back" but when known dopers have kept you off podiums and taken prize money from you it feels quite different.

[bikebloke]

Yoh!!!

 

Don't you think you are taking this just a little too far?

 

no he isn't

hes making a point that you obviously don't get in terms that you may understand

 

If you raced you would get how other racers feel about cheats

 

so maybe as a dad or a business owner you will understand how it feels to racers who have to deal with these cheats again and again because they keep being let off the hook

 

 yeah like he just said himself ...

[Skubarra]

Just a silly question - not causing *** just checking perspective...assuming they had all served their time would you:

 

Let a convicted paedophile look after your children?

Let a convicted accountant look after your business?

Let a convicted investment broker look after your retirement money?

 

It's not like we're stopping the man from doing his passion. We'd just not like to race against people that cheat.

 

Someone convicted of speeding or drunk driving would be allowed to drive a car again

 

A convicted shoplifter would not be banned from all shops for life

 

Someone convicted for assault or murder would be allowed to interact with humans again after jail

 

So I don't see how above examples are relevant.

 

I don't buy the hub principle that every single person caught for doping is has been full time evil intentional doper for his/her whole career, and I wouldn't support a life ban on someone unless it is proven beyond doubt that he has purposefully been part of a doping program and has not just been careless or negligent.

 

Luckily most of us keyboard warriors are far more menacing on social media than in real life so I don't expect those ex-dopers are living in fear of our retributions.

[BDF]

One thing we all need to come to terms with is that laws, rules, regulations and the like apply whether we think they are good, bad, unjust, nanny-state or whatever other emotional, rational, spiritual, ethical bias we may have.

 

If there is a sanction for an offender (PED's, speeding, fraud, theft, etc) who is convicted and serves the sanction, they have so to say, paid the price of their misdemeanor.

 

Certain misdemeanors are more serious than others but once sanction is served, they are free to roam the streets, race, work, live and carry on life as normal again.

 

The stigma of the misdemeanor will forever be part of their lives going forward.

 

Some people are more forgiving than others while some committers of misdemeanors are repentant and some are not.

 

Life in this world has a way of bringing suitable harvest depending on the seeds sown. We sometimes witness that harvest and sometimes we don't. One thing is for sure: there will always be a harvest.

[Thor Buttox]

Some people are more forgiving than others while some committers of misdemeanors are repentant and some are not.

 

If the dopers chicken/egged the repentance/forgiveness I think we'd have a lot more forgiveness.

[nonky]

Someone convicted of speeding or drunk driving would be allowed to drive a car again

 

A convicted shoplifter would not be banned from all shops for life

 

Someone convicted for assault or murder would be allowed to interact with humans again after jail

 

So I don't see how above examples are relevant.

 

I don't buy the hub principle that every single person caught for doping is has been full time evil intentional doper for his/her whole career, and I wouldn't support a life ban on someone unless it is proven beyond doubt that he has purposefully been part of a doping program and has not just been careless or negligent.

 

Luckily most of us keyboard warriors are far more menacing on social media than in real life so I don't expect those ex-dopers are living in fear of our retributions.

 

Give Lance another chance?

[Plentipotential]

Lets put a little perspective on this Vets thing.

 

In another sport, happens to be canoeing. A mate of mine and his canoeing K2 partner go and do a local race, age group hopefulls. The wives are also mates and spend the day together waiting for the men to come home from the race. They walk in the door having decided to tell their partners that they won the race, which was not true. Anyway when they get home the wives ask "How was the race?" " Great they say, we won!". " That's nice" says one wife.

 

Seriously, get some perspective, it's not the bloody world champs, it's a vets prize in a local bike race. FFS. No one outside of your close mates and those vets who did the race know about it, neither do they care.

[Plentipotential]

Cheating as a vet should be an automatic life time ban for being a chop, as well as being a cheat.

[Eldron]

 

 

I don't buy the hub principle that every single person caught for doping is has been full time evil intentional doper for his/her whole career, and I wouldn't support a life ban on someone unless it is proven beyond doubt that he has purposefully been part of a doping program and has not just been careless or negligent.

 

 

Quite right.

 

There is a lot of grey between the black and white.

 

For instance - David George gets the full volume DOPER! every chance I get (which is sadly not nearly often enough).

 

This dude I probably even wouldn't remember his name if I was standing next to him on the podium.

 

There is no universal answer on this issue - do what you think is right. Me - I think the right thing is to dopeshame them out of cycling.  Oh my gaaawd - did I just invent  #dopeshaming???

[Long Wheel Base]

It's not the severity of the crimes I'm trying to convey - I'm trying to personalise it. It's easy enough to say "let them back" but when known dopers have kept you off podiums and taken prize money from you it feels quite different.

So 4 years ago I went and raced in Mauritius. There was a French rider from AG2R, Sylvain Georges. He was part of their grand tour team and had won a few stages and races here and there. So they made a big thing about it and he was the star of the race and and and. Anyway he obviously won both stages easily and I ended up coming 3rd on the first stage and a bit further back the next day. I ended 4th overall. A few months later he tested positive(I think at the giro) and was banned. It sucked and I had photos on Facebook with him and I removed them because I didn't want to be associated with him.

Needless to say I have never seen or heard about him since.

 

Sent from my LG-H735 using Tapatalk

[Eldron]

If the dopers chicken/egged the repentance/forgiveness I think we'd have a lot more forgiveness.

 

If the whole universe stopped to think and/or insert some empathy we'd have zero problems with anything. Ever.

[Eldron]

So 4 years ago I went and raced in Mauritius. There was a French rider from AG2R, Sylvain Georges. He was part of their grand tour team and had won a few stages and races here and there. So they made a big thing about it and he was the star of the race and and and. Anyway he obviously won both stages easily and I ended up coming 3rd on the first stage and a bit further back the next day. I ended 4th overall. A few months later he tested positive(I think at the giro) and was banned. It sucked and I had photos on Facebook with him and I removed them because I didn't want to be associated with him.

Needless to say I have never seen or heard about him since.

 

Sent from my LG-H735 using Tapatalk

 

That is proper farked up.

 

It's one of the things I hate most about doping - the not knowing.

 

Once you've doped and won it can't be taken back.

 

Would Lance have won 7 if he was clean? Nobody will ever know - there could be another 3 or 4 or 5 times winner but we'll never know because drugs. It sucks.

[bikebloke]

Lets put a little perspective on this Vets thing.

 

In another sport, happens to be canoeing. A mate of mine and his canoeing K2 partner go and do a local race, age group hopefulls. The wives are also mates and spend the day together waiting for the men to come home from the race. They walk in the door having decided to tell their partners that they won the race, which was not true. Anyway when they get home the wives ask "How was the race?" " Great they say, we won!". " That's nice" says one wife.

 

Seriously, get some perspective, it's not the bloody world champs, it's a vets prize in a local bike race. FFS. No one outside of your close mates and those vets who did the race know about it, neither do they care.

 

spoken like a  true 28 year old  

 

but you make a good point ...and yet .....they still cheat ........go figure how sad that is

 

#dopeshaming 

[Thor Buttox]

That is proper farked up.

 

It's one of the things I hate most about doping - the not knowing.

 

Once you've doped and won it can't be taken back.

 

Would Lance have won 7 if he was clean? Nobody will ever know - there could be another 3 or 4 or 5 times winner but we'll never know because drugs. It sucks.

I wrote exactly the same thing on the Brandon Stewart thread. I trained for fifteen years in relative isolation and obliviousness in my first sport to try reach my Olympic dream many moons ago. Got pretty close, but always every year guys would come flying out of nowhere at the National Champs. Could have been better training, could have been my lack of talent, could have been my lack of drugs/treatment/cross training/and a number of other things. But I'll never know.

 

Some will say accept it and move on. But putting 15 years of effort in as a kid/teen/young adult is very hard to dismiss if the playing fields are uneven. And I am now a coach myself, so I deal with the thought often.

 

That said, I would put every cent into testing pro's and kids, more than vets. Wannabe veteran dopers doing it for ego are just pathetic. (Although, I got some random comment the other day on a Strava ride saying my KOM must have been in a car... Which I thought was quite funny... #drugsdwisses)

[Skubarra]

Give Lance another chance?

 

A system banning Lance for 2 years for his little backdated "saddle sore" TUE stunt would have been far more effective in fighting doping than a life ban after his retirement.

 

I get why hubbers are vindictive against ex-dopers (I also puke a little when I see an ex-doper on the podium), but in my books better testing & an efficient system are more effective than life bans.