Cycling Cecilia cork tree trail

[(Deon)]

Actually before 2011 did they already waste taxpayers money by flying down a delegation from Pretoria to 'appease' those who are paying their salaries.  A PR exercise that they are very very good at.  History can be sometimes longer than what you think.

 

Look - you guys have been at it for a while - hopefully a lot of lessons have been learnt.  Sometimes you also need to realise that you need a different strategy.  So while you plod along spend some energy at looking at other alternatives.  I hear there is a Protea Starcraft Grandmaster player in the Southern Suburbs - they are very good at strategising and adapting very quickly

 

I agree fully that when it comes to turnaround time, a whole new policy should be adopted but what can we do. I'm not sure changing tactics before we have completed the first task is wise. We do this every time the rugby team loses and x amount of coaches later we are still losing. December is when the legislated planning process comes to an end. Butting heads now as we've done in the past may only be detrimental with the timeframe left. 

 

Hey, the fire is what we all wanted.. cyclists, botanists, scientists and conservationists alike. It was literally the fire under asses the process needed and for the pines to go, not in ten years time, now..

 

I'll say it again, we have the support of Table Mountain National Park. Heck, Gavin Bell even sat with Liz Brunette and explained the vision of the end goal being the circa-peninsula route, why do you think CoCT greenbelt access was passed so quickly? If you need more proof, then I don't know.

[(Deon)]

Was involved in the days when the mushroom collectors, dog walkers and some cyclists opposed the felling.  

Opposing felling and not securing an MOA can also be seen as a failure. Not knocking you or your efforts, but as you say, it comes down to playing the game and right now we sit without any proof of the activity existing - on paper.

[Slapsock]

I agree fully that when it comes to turnaround time, a whole new policy should be adopted but what can we do. I'm not sure changing tactics before we have completed the first task is wise. We do this every time the rugby team loses and x amount of coaches later we are still losing. December is when the legislated planning process comes to an end. Butting heads now as we've done in the past may only be detrimental with the timeframe left. 

 

Hey, the fire is what we all wanted.. cyclists, botanists, scientists and conservationists alike. It was literally the fire under asses the process needed and for the pines to go, not in ten years time, now..

 

I'll say it again, we have the support of Table Mountain National Park. Heck, Gavin Bell even sat with Liz Brunette and explained the vision of the end goal being the circa-peninsula route, why do you think CoCT greenbelt access was passed so quickly? If you need more proof, then I don't know.

In his vision did he manage to mention when this circa peninsula route would become a reality. Its been a vision for many years and we're not much closer.

 

Which greenbelts are these? The one in Higgovale because constantia is still out of bounds

[(Deon)]

You just need one approval, don't matter where.

 

Several factors came together simultaneously to make the approval reasonably effortless, ask Rob how easy it was when just 2 years ago council were still breaking down kids tracks in 3 areas I know of while avoiding discussions..

 

A few of these factors is that mountain biking has existed in a poorly catered form for too many years and with the fire, the timing for CoCT access was prime. Remember, the Tokai trails has 15+ years of proof that a community can look after a set of trails, so the basis for care is there and this is a big feather in the community's cap. But again, my point was that Table Mountain National Park helped motivate this need with the idea to link two sets of land.

 

I cannot really comment on timeframe as the whole Park is being reviewed. Let's rather keep to the topic at hand and discuss matters to slow the pace so we can have some understanding before moving on, agree?

 

Also to say we are no closer does not seem reasonable given what I have said above.

[tubed]

I certainly acknowledge the work of those trying to work with Sanparks and I dont support rogue riding on private land, but increasingly I get the feeling that it is time to force Sanparks hand. It is clear that they have 'negotiated' for years in bad faith, doing not much more than stalling the process while they earn significant revenue.

They have not fulfilled the manadate they chose to accept when the park was formed and the heads of agreement were signed, instead they have selectively chosen to enforce what they see as their rights.

This incident of fining a person for riding that trail and then abandoning the process is something they should at the least explain - if I had the time I would consider a case of malicious or wrongful prosecution - you cannot simply wield the law irresponsibly and expect citizens to bare the brunt of your misuse of power.

What feedbck was obtained from the public comment process? - nothing, not even an acknowledgement of the time and effort put in to put facts on the table, another exercise in them giving a semblance of concern, but no real intention of acting.

As mentioned previously, when it came to them rerouting the Rhodes Mem path over a stream and away from their offices - not a sign of an EMP or a process - done with the most haste ever.

I realise that rogue riding on private land is a big NO, especially enforced by some of the race organisers with severe threats, but most of these organisers pay a fee to Sanparks at some stage to ride on Sanparks controlled land, their interest is predominantly for their own commercial benefit. Again I would suggest that the Epic's ability to get any work done in the Rhodes Mem area was directly proportionate to the funds they contributed to Sanparks and the pathetic Sanparks exercise of having overseas riders pose with their one day access cards.

 

(Rant over feel better already)

[(Deon)]

I certainly acknowledge the work of those trying to work with Sanparks and I dont support rogue riding on private land, but increasingly I get the feeling that it is time to force Sanparks hand. It is clear that they have 'negotiated' for years in bad faith, doing not much more than stalling the process while they earn significant revenue.

They have not fulfilled the manadate they chose to accept when the park was formed and the heads of agreement were signed, instead they have selectively chosen to enforce what they see as their rights.

This incident of fining a person for riding that trail and then abandoning the process is something they should at the least explain - if I had the time I would consider a case of malicious or wrongful prosecution - you cannot simply wield the law irresponsibly and expect citizens to bare the brunt of your misuse of power.

What feedbck was obtained from the public comment process? - nothing, not even an acknowledgement of the time and effort put in to put facts on the table, another exercise in them giving a semblance of concern, but no real intention of acting.

As mentioned previously, when it came to them rerouting the Rhodes Mem path over a stream and away from their offices - not a sign of an EMP or a process - done with the most haste ever.

I realise that rogue riding on private land is a big NO, especially enforced by some of the race organisers with severe threats, but most of these organisers pay a fee to Sanparks at some stage to ride on Sanparks controlled land, their interest is predominantly for their own commercial benefit. Again I would suggest that the Epic's ability to get any work done in the Rhodes Mem area was directly proportionate to the funds they contributed to Sanparks and the pathetic Sanparks exercise of having overseas riders pose with their one day access cards.

 

(Rant over feel better already)

Sorry I have to pull you back into this. Cecelia is currently off limits to cyclists. I don't mean the Cork tree trail, Cecelia as a whole. The process is to rewrite into the EMP the allocation of the area to allow cyclists, not reroute traffic when planned logistics could have quite easily not have considered riders at all.

 

I'm not sure what public comment you refer to, there has not been one for mountain biking yet, certainly not for the cork tree trail which is what we are discussing.

[Slapsock]

You just need one approval, don't matter where.

 

Several factors came together simultaneously to make the approval reasonably effortless, ask Rob how easy it was when just 2 years ago council were still breaking down kids tracks in 3 areas I know of while avoiding discussions..

 

A few of these factors is that mountain biking has existed in a poorly catered form for too many years and with the fire, the timing for CoCT access was prime. Remember, the Tokai trails has 15+ years of proof that a community can look after a set of trails, so the basis for care is there and this is a big feather in the community's cap. But again, my point was that Table Mountain National Park helped motivate this need with the idea to link two sets of land.

 

I cannot really comment on timeframe as the whole Park is being reviewed. Let's rather keep to the topic at hand and discuss matters to slow the pace so we can have some understanding before moving on, agree?

 

Also to say we are no closer does not seem reasonable given what I have said above

I'm just going on perception, the previous EMP was designed with a view to creating this trail around the mountain and nothing came of it despite much talk of it. So I guess as far I can see we're still just talking about it. Changes to greenbelts by COCT is really awesome and exciting but its a different entity to Sanp and when they actually open some fire roads eg constantia nek it would indicate to me that they are trying to get it done.

[Toby Adams]

I certainly acknowledge the work of those trying to work with Sanparks and I dont support rogue riding on private land, but increasingly I get the feeling that it is time to force Sanparks hand. It is clear that they have 'negotiated' for years in bad faith, doing not much more than stalling the process while they earn significant revenue.

They have not fulfilled the manadate they chose to accept when the park was formed and the heads of agreement were signed, instead they have selectively chosen to enforce what they see as their rights.

This incident of fining a person for riding that trail and then abandoning the process is something they should at the least explain - if I had the time I would consider a case of malicious or wrongful prosecution - you cannot simply wield the law irresponsibly and expect citizens to bare the brunt of your misuse of power.

What feedbck was obtained from the public comment process? - nothing, not even an acknowledgement of the time and effort put in to put facts on the table, another exercise in them giving a semblance of concern, but no real intention of acting.

As mentioned previously, when it came to them rerouting the Rhodes Mem path over a stream and away from their offices - not a sign of an EMP or a process - done with the most haste ever.

I realise that rogue riding on private land is a big NO, especially enforced by some of the race organisers with severe threats, but most of these organisers pay a fee to Sanparks at some stage to ride on Sanparks controlled land, their interest is predominantly for their own commercial benefit. Again I would suggest that the Epic's ability to get any work done in the Rhodes Mem area was directly proportionate to the funds they contributed to Sanparks and the pathetic Sanparks exercise of having overseas riders pose with their one day access cards.

 

(Rant over feel better already)

OK!  so we are now all on the same page. I don't ride 'the cork tree trail' any more but when i run that trail i see many cyclists using it

The circa-peninsula route sounds a wonderfull vision but will presumably take a long to reach finality

Deon, please tell us more about 'why do you think CoCT greenbelt access was passed so quickly' - we need an update

[Flowta]

I agree fully that when it comes to turnaround time, a whole new policy should be adopted but what can we do. I'm not sure changing tactics before we have completed the first task is wise. We do this every time the rugby team loses and x amount of coaches later we are still losing. December is when the legislated planning process comes to an end. Butting heads now as we've done in the past may only be detrimental with the timeframe left. 

 

Hey, the fire is what we all wanted.. cyclists, botanists, scientists and conservationists alike. It was literally the fire under asses the process needed and for the pines to go, not in ten years time, now..

 

I'll say it again, we have the support of Table Mountain National Park. Heck, Gavin Bell even sat with Liz Brunette and explained the vision of the end goal being the circa-peninsula route, why do you think CoCT greenbelt access was passed so quickly? If you need more proof, then I don't know.

 

Which Greenbelts Deon?

[(Deon)]

OK!  so we are now all on the same page. I don't ride 'the cork tree trail' any more but when i run that trail i see many cyclists using it

The circa-peninsula route sounds a wonderfull vision but will presumably take a long to reach finality

Deon, please tell us more about 'why do you think CoCT greenbelt access was passed so quickly' - we need an update

 

Toby, simply put, the timing for a commuter route off the tar was perfect. Tokai and Silvermine closure drove the need more than ever and finally through Table Mountain Bikers, access was officially granted.

 

There has been an upswell over several years around the world for this type of trail and commuting lifestyle. A few years ago I was involved in promoting the idea of a cycling city through Think-Bike and several respected and influential people. The ground work had been laid down for such thinking and really only needed activation. All sorts of ideas were presented; special racks (some of the designs I see are being made now) allowing parking for 20 bikes in the space of 1 car, viral awareness campaigns, a few challenges to prove it can be done and help gain traction. Keep in mind that this was when the City was still quite resistant to bikes and didn't take us seriously enough to allocate budget to the ideas..  

 

Helen Zille once raced Andrew Wheeldon home in the traffic, her in the mayoral Prius and him on a bike. Well, from then the proof that bikes were more effective and (weather permitting) more viable than cars to provide a realistic solution around parking and congestion. Soon we heard Alan Winde latched onto the idea of a cycling city and has shown no signs of slowing. This was when the planning for NMT routes started rolling out. So when Rob from TMB pushed for greenbelt access, along with Table Mountain National Park link process already underway through the MTB forum, the will was there. Also people had been riding it for years without major incident, so equally, the foot-traffic was not resistant either. 

[Flowta]

Toby, simply put, the timing for a commuter route off the tar was perfect. Tokai and Silvermine closure drove the need more than ever and finally through Table Mountain Bikers, access was officially granted.

 

There has been an upswell over several years around the world for this type of trail and commuting lifestyle. A few years ago I was involved in promoting the idea of a cycling city through Think-Bike and several respected and influential people. The ground work had been laid down for such thinking and really only needed activation. All sorts of ideas were presented; special racks (some of the designs I see are being made now) allowing parking for 20 bikes in the space of 1 car, viral awareness campaigns, a few challenges to prove it can be done and help gain traction. Keep in mind that this was when the City was still quite resistant to bikes and didn't take us seriously enough to allocate budget to the ideas..  

 

Helen Zille once raced Andrew Wheeldon home in the traffic, her in the mayoral Prius and him on a bike. Well, from then the proof that bikes were more effective and (weather permitting) more viable than cars to provide a realistic solution around parking and congestion. Soon we heard Alan Winde latched onto the idea of a cycling city and has shown no signs of slowing. This was when the planning for NMT routes started rolling out. So when Rob from TMB pushed for greenbelt access, along with Table Mountain National Park link process already underway through the MTB forum, the will was there. Also people had been riding it for years without major incident, so equally, the foot-traffic was not resistant either. 

 

I need to ask again, which Greenbelts are you referring to?

Constantia? In town?

[(Deon)]

huh? Constantia I think was the first. Does it make a difference where if we are discussing CoCT as an entity?

[Toby Adams]

Deon, are you saying that the CoCT green belts are open to cyclists?

 

This would be amazing as i don't want to cycle in the traffic, i don't want to go home via the closest trauma unit

[(Deon)]

It's approved but not open yet. I heard MOU's were being signed but this was in the closed newsletter to TMB members only. Signage is next to make it official.

Edited August 20, 2015 by (Deon)

[Headshot]

It's approved but not open yet. I heard MOU's were being signed but this was in the closed newsletter to TMB members only. Signage is next to make it official.

In one of the same newsletters, Rob was bemoaning the fact that despite giving approval in principle to the Cork Tree track being opened to cyclists, and stating that they would inter alia need a letter from Cape Pine, to take the process further, it appears that TMNP have done little if anything to hurry this process along or try to "make it happen". 

 

The EMP for MTB process may well be related to this ie its the bigger picture, but when you look at how trails have been opened for the Epic sans the new EMP ( the old one still applies does it not) you must surely accept that TMNP are not very straight in their dealings with the public.

 

I still risk the cork trees every now and then - join it half way down and pop out at the big corner on Rhodes Drive and haven't seen any rangers so far.  

 

As an aside, on a ride on TM a few weeks ago I encountered a chap on his street moto - just cruising slowly around looking at the view. 

[Flowta]

huh? Constantia I think was the first. Does it make a difference where if we are discussing CoCT as an entity?

 

Well I haven't heard/seen any movement on Constantia, but TMB seem to be actively building trails in the Higgovale area. Is that considered Greenbelt or not?