Skylark Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 If Epicbikeshop is not vat registered they do not charge vat nor claim vat back from sars. The vat is built in to the price of the item by the vat they pay to their suppliers for stock, vat which they cannot claim back. They are not entitled to show vat itemised on their invoices nor state thereon that it is a vat invoice because it ain't one!
Longbarn Killer Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 This is interesting....in my 15 years of guiding...I've yet to hear a local jeweler tell the clients that they must pay the vat /tax when when they arrive back home...one of the selling points they use is,the vat refund ..so why pay vat on goods in your home country...maybe the laws are little different for peeps importing and exporting as a business than those buying for personal use...????Nope, not different. If you bring something in to SA. You must pay your VAT. How many people know that if you download a song or program or even an App from a foreign country, you are supposed to make a declaration to SARS and pay the VAT.
Longbarn Killer Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 This is interesting....in my 15 years of guiding...I've yet to hear a local jeweler tell the clients that they must pay the vat /tax when when they arrive back home...one of the selling points they use is,the vat refund ..so why pay vat on goods in your home country...maybe the laws are little different for peeps importing and exporting as a business than those buying for personal use...????Nope, not different. If you bring something in to SA. You must pay your VAT. How many people know that if you download a song or program or even an App from a foreign country, you are supposed to make a declaration to SARS and pay the VAT.
KingTJ Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 My problem with this story is not so much who is owed money and how it is paid.... to me the i,portant part is why the false VAT number? When you know you are not VAT registered....it show me intent to deceive....it raises serious questions about epic bike store.
GLuvsMtb Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 The question begs though... HAVE you paid your local VAT on arrival for the bike? Cos if you haven't, you're not only dodging tax on your side, but your very actions here by demanding a refund are immoral. If you have paid local VAT (on arrival in the EU) then it's a different story.The problem lies in that Epic Bike Shop seemingly put a VAT number on their invoice that is not valid / not theirs. If they stated 'VAT registration pending' on their invoice they would have acted within the law. It now looks like tax fraud (bold statement without all the facts, I know). If the OP commits tax fraud in Italy, its up to SARS / the Italian authorities to deal with that. The bottom line is that the OP could not get his Epic Bike Shop invoice stamped by customs as the VAT number used is nit valid, making a declaration in Italy a bit of a problem.
Skylark Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 SARS will ask if Vat was paid in the EU - if so I sure SARS will be quite happy to assist in him getting the VAT back - even if Epic is not Vat registered they may ask Epic to go 1 supplier deeper in the chain.Pretty sure no ways in hell will sars do that, it's the buyer perogative - choose to buy from a vat registered co you can get your vat back upon exiting the country otherwise go fly kites. Sars isn't worried about what happens after the item leaves the country, just as long as it does actually leave if the vat is claimed back. Some EU countries do not charge vat or duties on some categories of imports for personal use.
Icycling Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 On February 2015 I bought a very nice bicycle from Epicbikeshop, before purchasing it I had a long conversation with them through emails about what I was going to buy and they assured me many times (got written emails) that once I would leave South Africa i was going to get the VAT back.In April I left Cape Town and one week before leaving I again asked them if the invoice was fine and if I needed anything else in order to get the money back. They told me i just had to bring the Invoice with the bicycle and they would give me the money back. The day I left I went earlier to the airport just in case something would go wrong. When I went to the VAT Refund office the person working there checked the bicycle and when she took a look at the invoice she told me that the VAT number of the store was missing from the letter. If I wanted to get the VAT back I had to provide them with a proper invoice. Then she actually called them and asked them to send a proper invoice with the VAT number on it, she also told them that if they charged me the VAT without having it registered they had to refund me the money. They assured her that they were going to send a proper invoice right away since we were waiting at the airport for this but after 30-40 minutes it still didn't happen. I called them again because I was in rush and they finally sent it on my email. I went to print it and when the worker at the airport checked the invoice with the VAT on it, it showed on the system that the VAT was not registered! So she told me to leave her all my information and in case the VAT was good they would inspect it and send me a debit card on my home address. I had to leave to catch my flight. In July 2015 I finally get a mail from the South African Tax department saying that the VAT of the vendor has been excluded from Export Incentive Scheme therefore unable to process my claim!I called the Epic Bike Shop and they told me that they are going to find a solution with the VAT and that they will give me back the money. Spoke with them a few weeks ago and they told me that the new VAT is still in process. Is this something that often happens in South Africa? I really don't want to lose the money, they have to give me back my money for the VAT that I paid. What can I do about it? I would really appreciate any suggestions, "The day I left I went earlier to the airport just in case something would go wrong. When I went to the VAT Refund office the person working there checked the bicycle and when she took a look at the invoice she told me that the VAT number of the store was missing from the letter. If I wanted to get the VAT back I had to provide them with a proper invoice." Certainly at the start of the process it does not seem that Epic were putting number on invoice / claiming to be Vat registered!
KingTJ Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 If Epicbikeshop is not vat registered they do not charge vat nor claim vat back from sars. The vat is built in to the price of the item by the vat they pay to their suppliers for stock, vat which they cannot claim back.They are not entitled to show vat itemised on their invoices nor state thereon that it is a vat invoice because it ain't one!I totally agree with you. A lot of people are making "factual" statements here on behalf of epic without fully understanding how the system works...i would recomend they get expert advise first.
King_Crispy Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 But he has a VAT number on his invoice? Definition of fraud? In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
Longbarn Killer Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 SARS will ask if Vat was paid in the EU - if so I sure SARS will be quite happy to assist in him getting the VAT back - even if Epic is not Vat registered they may ask Epic to go 1 supplier deeper in the chain.No SARS won't. As mentioned before SARS does not care if he paid VAT in the EU. A foreigner leaving SA is entitled to claim his SA VAT back. He can only get this VAT back if the SA seller has paid the VAT to SARS. We know that this has not happened as Epic is not registered for VAT. And no, SARS will not assist him to get it back. their liability ends when they discovered the invoice was invalid. And no they will not go one supplier deeper. In fact, these refunds are not even administered by SARS. An independent entity called the VAT Refund Administrator does this. ..
Longbarn Killer Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 I totally agree with you. A lot of people are making "factual" statements here on behalf of epic without fully understanding how the system works...i would recomend they get expert advise first. Agree 100%. I have 20 years experience in this stuff and I think that I have sound knowledge of this topic. The amount of rubbish being spoken here is amazing. There is a nice guide on the SARS website. Perhaps people should read it.
KingTJ Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 No SARS won't. As mentioned before SARS does not care if he paid VAT in the EU. A foreigner leaving SA is entitled to claim his SA VAT back. He can only get this VAT back if the SA seller has paid the VAT to SARS. We know that this has not happened as Epic is not registered for VAT.And no, SARS will not assist him to get it back. their liability ends when they discovered the invoice was invalid. And no they will not go one supplier deeper.In fact, these refunds are not even administered by SARS. An independent entity called the VAT Refund Administrator does this... And there we have the facts, enough speculation...now back to the question why put a false VAT number
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Thanks Longbarn. Cleared up a couple.of things for me as well. Going back to edit posts...
Americo Posted September 20, 2015 Author Posted September 20, 2015 Just writing this to put few facts straight seeing that some people here are doing whatever is possible to turn this topic into someone else. - Epicshopbike assured me I'd get back the VAT at the airpot - Epicshopbike provided an invoice with a VAT number not recognized from the system so I wasn't able to claim the VAT - 6 months later they didn't provide a new invoice with a real VAT number on it - When I started this topic after 30 minutes I got an email from them telling me that it wasn't good for US to be on the forum and threatened me saying that if I won't delete he won't pay back the VAT - A certain @therock starts commenting bringing the topic somewhere else - a certain @zilla using @therock comment makes a point trying again to bing the topic into something else and talking as he is not involved in this matter - a user recognizes that @zilla is epicshopbike - again @zilla now talking as thebikeshop comments talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic,lying in many points and trying to look good and clean - the invoice he provided and emails we exchanged that I posted here tells it all I don't know what else to say,it should be clear to all of you by now.involved with epicbikeshop or not; He should't have done what he did and instead he had to be clear about the VAT and apologize for the "mistake" he has done Will contact SARS and will see how things move forward Thank you everyone
raptor-22 Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 no one here has seen orignal documents so is jumping to conclusions appropriate?
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Just writing this to put few facts straight seeing that some people here are doing whatever is possible to turn this topic into someone else. - Epicshopbike assured me I'd get back the VAT at the airpot - Epicshopbike provided an invoice with a VAT number not recognized from the system so I wasn't able to claim the VAT - 6 months later they didn't provide a new invoice with a real VAT number on it - When I started this topic after 30 minutes I got an email from them telling me that it wasn't good for US to be on the forum and threatened me saying that if I won't delete he won't pay back the VAT - A certain @therock starts commenting bringing the topic somewhere else - a certain @zilla using @therock comment makes a point trying again to bing the topic into something else and talking as he is not involved in this matter - a user recognizes that @zilla is epicshopbike - again @zilla now talking as thebikeshop comments talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic,lying in many points and trying to look good and clean - the invoice he provided and emails we exchanged that I posted here tells it all I don't know what else to say,it should be clear to all of you by now.involved with epicbikeshop or not; He should't have done what he did and instead he had to be clear about the VAT and apologize for the "mistake" he has done Will contact SARS and will see how things move forward Thank you everyoneHAVE you paid EU VAT, or not?
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